architecture of cork city

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This topic contains 129 replies, has 37 voices, and was last updated by  njcork 6 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #707906

    lexington
    Participant

    Pretty.

    The city possessed a fine collection of Georgian and Victorian architectural styles. Much of this is documented in the paintings of the Crawford Gallery at Emmet Place (Cork) which details a city rich in architectural belnds. Many buildings possessed a heavy Dutch and Spanish influence – as a result of maritime trading links. It is highly unfortunate that little of this exists today. However, some exceptionally stupid planning decisions didn’t help things along either.

    Some surviving examples of these styles may be seen at Emmet Place (Marble & Lemon House, Insurances House, the Crawford Gallery, Meadows & Byrne), Pope’s Quay (Cultural & Heritage/Cork 2005 House) and along Patrick’s Street and the South Mall.

  • #756994

    Devin
    Participant

    Was in Cork last week – good buzz around the place. Some pics:

    I like this group of Georgians on Bachelors Quay 🙂 (left). Cork Georgian is completely different to Dublin. Charming staggered building line (right), with sash windows in the sides…except for the few PVCs that have got in 🙁

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    Cork has an extraordinary architectural heritage, unlike anywhere else in the country – it never ceases to amaze me that it is not discussed on the Cork threads…
    This building on Grand Parade is described in the An Taisce Buildings at Risk list as “one of the most sophisticated urban terraced elevations in Ireland” – http://www.antaisce.org/yourarea/bar2.html?id=563 – but look at it now…a gaunt windowless shell acting as a car park entrance….says a lot about our attitude to our built heritage…

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    I like these.….the green ‘50s shopfronts, that is 🙂 – there’s 2 left on Oliver Plunkett Street; this and another one at the Prince’s Street junction.

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    The new bridge – it’s nice.
    It’s one of those bridges that, now that it’s there, you wonder how there was never a bridge here. It’s in the right place.

    But 2 negative points:
    1. It’s got this silly green glass screen at the edge of the pavement on the south side, so that when you approach from Cornmarket, you think there’s a green gauze across the mouth of it and work is still going on…
    2. It doesn’t emerge from the stone quay wall as seamlessly as it ought.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    In Cork you still get that sense of a clean break between the city and its surrounding countryside, which has been hopelessly lost in Dublin. But the amount of traffic roaring around the city centre – it’s almost as bad as Dublin – lets you know that there must be bad sprawl and one-off housing, and huge numbers commuting in and out of the city by car.

  • #756995

    Devin
    Participant

    Was hugely impressed by Patrick Street. It is a very sophisticated repaving scheme.

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    Small shops – a lot still survive in Cork. The place hasn’t been riddled with Spars ‘n Centras like Dublin.

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    You still see things in Cork that you’d never see in Dublin now 🙂 .

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This new building (right) makes a nice adjunct to the 18th century houses on Camden Quay – but the houses desperately need sash windows reinstated in them.

    While this is a good modern development, respecting the scale and character of the historic city centre, there’s some dreadful new development in Cork. Just across the river from this, on Lavitt’s Quay, a bland monstrosity has been built since last time I was there. It rudely oversails the surrounding building heights by at least 100% – a typical example of a developer going for as much as they could possibly get.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Essential Cork townscape – the view of the terraces set into the hill above the Lower Glanmire Road as seen from the docks area. I understand the whole of the docks area is up for redevelopment, so this view will likely be lost or altered.

    There are some interesting older buildings in the docks area – warehouses in the beautiful local silvery limestone, and other structures. I hope there is a proper audit of the existing buildings and features in the docks area – if you don’t know what you have, good stuff can be lost…..and developers will try to get rid of stuff.

  • #756996

    phil
    Participant

    Great post Devin. I too am amazed at the lack of attention the existing fabric of Cork gets on the ‘look at the state of Cork like’ thread, or on any other thread for that matter. there are some really interesting buildings throughout the city. St. Augustines church for example is remarkable in the way it just seems to appear within the streetscape.

    http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/cork/cork/church.html

    I can’t believe that building on Grand Parade is an entrance to a car park, and is seeming to be allowed to simply fall apart. (I hope it is not a case like the Adelphi in Dublin, where the facade is simply retained above the entrance to Arnotts car park!)

    That Buckley’s shopfront is very nice indeed. Have you ever seen Hicks Shopfront in Dun Laoghaire? I think it is a gem. Great pity to see many of these types of frontages disappear

    http://www.dun-laoghaire.com/dir/hicks/

  • #756997

    Devin
    Participant

    Thanks Phil. I don’t know St. Augustine’s but I will check it out next time I’m there – it’s unusal.
    And on French Church St., you’re walking along the narrow street with shops and suddenly the back of a huge church appears….the place has a more continental feel than other cities in Ireland.

    I saw that Hicks shopfront when I was in DL a while ago – good to see it’s still there.

  • #756998

    phil
    Participant

    Yeah, Cork has that sort of feeling of places described by Gordon Cullen. I love the way suprises just pop up out of the urban landscape like they do there.

  • #756999

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Some great pics there Devin. The film? they were taken with lends them something of an 80s feel which is rather strange 🙂

    I must admit to the shameful crime of never having been to Cork – made it to all surrounding counties and cities, but never to the depths of Cork 🙁
    It’s difficult to grasp a perspective and feel for the city on the Cork thread, as isolated developments tend not to join up as it were on screen, but the pictures of streetscapes like above make it so much easier.
    Of course there’s often two sides to every urban space, and the WATSOCL thread tackles new development very well, but there’s also room for content like this.

    Aren’t the slate-hung Georgians just fantastic?! Did you manage to get any more of these on your visit Devin? The one next to the ‘Citi’ :rolleyes: car park looks wonderful next to the neighbouring red brick.
    So many regional towns & cities have that unusual type of brick arching on main facades, and on mews buildings etc – such a shame to see this example in such poor condition.

    The extent of paving on Patrick St looks very impressive; seems to be a very pedestrian friendly place.
    See what people meant on the Cork Bridges thread about the Shandon Bridge – looks a bit clunky all right!

  • #757000

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Devin,
    a nice selection of images. Scanned photos?

  • #757001

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    @devin wrote:

    Cork has an extraordinary architectural heritage, unlike anywhere else in the country – it never ceases to amaze me that it is not discussed on the Cork threads….

    because THAT THREAD is full of developer rubbish

  • #757002

    Devin
    Participant

    I know. The lack of objectivity towards new development is quite staggering at times. They* want every development to be granted exactly as it is applied for (!) and act like it’s the end of the world if a scheme is refused or goes to appeal.

    The images are scans.

    * or some of them

  • #757003

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Devin, isn’t that a little harsh? You’re lauding the “unique” architecture in Cork, yet to many people alot of the more unique unchanged aspects are depressingly derelict. That shop front on Castle St has it charms, but the shop itself is not great. Give me a well appointed and stocked clean Centra please.
    I think when people get excited about development in these areas they see it as a chance to change some of the downward spiral that Cork seemed to be on despite the economic upturn. That said I do agree that there’s an element that champions anything that is proposed in some of the threads which is wrong. For every bit of preserved heritage there’s lots that ain’t so great. The challenge is to recognise the distinction.

  • #757004

    Devin
    Participant

    No one’s saying Cork should remain in a time capsule. But those who want to see development happen quickly should maybe take it easy – look what happened in Dublin in the 1990s when there was a rush of inner city redevelopment ( 🙁 ). You can already see the strains of a boom in Cork with some poor quality (and some good) development.

    I don’t really find any of Cork depressing or derilect. Actually I get the impression that it utilizes its older building stock very well and that the city connects with its people in a way that other places don’t. It would be a shame if these qualities were lost or diminished in a rush for redevelopment.

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    Are the buildings in your first image not on South Mall? Like the Grand Parade building, it’s sad what can happen to beautiful historic buildings.

  • #757005

    phil
    Participant

    @devin wrote:

    Are the buildings in your first image not on South Mall? Like the Grand Parade building, it’s sad what can happen to beautiful historic buildings.

    No these are on Parnell Place. I saw them the other day. I agree that this form of ‘urban taxidermy’ is very unfortunate.

  • #757006

    pier39
    Participant

    @paul Clerkin wrote:

    because THAT THREAD is full of developer rubbish

    first off, great pics devin – some nice visuals there (including the girls in pic 2!!! 😀 – what an eye!) but i think that comment up above isnt quite unfair. besides the fact that the thread has become a valuable resource to some in the city and dont see why der cant be 2 sides to the coin. if the look at…cork thread is developerish so be it. this seems like a nice oul thread to start talkin about the other side of things so why not go for it??? live and let live. its up 2 da people involved i say to make it work and if it doesnt theres noone to blame but themselves. also i think the look at cork thread has be very good at gettin people for all areas of the field of new buildings interestd in not only this website but also corks architecture and progress and history and stuff. i used to read this website since early 2002 (many a year before i delurked) and cork didnt get half the mention it does now which was a shame cos the whole country has so much to offer not just dublin.

    i see the popularity of the look at cork thread as a very positive thing and archiseek.com should be proud that its has such a success on its hands. just look at the google rating for mention of the topics in it, its brillient!

    it also seems to have got people really interested in wats goin on in cork and if ders bias here and there well every1 has an = opportunity to voice their opinion and tackle an issue. i dont agree with everything on it either but tis great to see the vast info there. and also i think it gets people excited to see opportunities to embrace modern architecture in a city that never enjoyed the same movement as places like dublin. so relax – let that thread do its thing and lets give this thread a nice shot at the otherside of things!!!!!

    (i never had me one for diplomacy! think i see a pig flyin passed me window!) 😀

  • #757007

    lexington
    Participant

    I don’t remember starting this thread – the first post is a reply to one of Boyler’s posts.

    Anyhow, I think some of the sentiment expressed in this thread so far is not a good place to be in. I am most disappointed by one particular comment, as I hold a high opinion of the poster. I entirely accept the heavy developer content of the LADSOCL thread and I’m afraid I don’t accept the logic used to dispute against it. The thread is open to all and to all opinions. For example, snoopdog recently argued against the opinions of those expressed on the thread regarding a development, and I was delighted to see the contrast. Of course I’ll argue my position, but that’s good debate. As far as I’m concerned, and I have consistently expressed this, development must be

    a.) sustainable
    b.) aesthetically complimentary
    c.) progressive

    I have ALWAYS expressed the need for good design, and often, we don’t get it – but when we do, it should be recognised. Architecture is the language that defines urban spaces – good and/or bad. Development is the vessel which speaks this language. Like any language, sometimes it is ill-spoken, other times its is graceful. My support for certain developments is incorporated into a bigger picture for an area or plot. Critiques against say, as Devin pointed out, 21 Lavitts Quay, cannot be made with considering the following:

    a.) what stood there before?
    b.) how does it fit into the strategic vision of the area?
    c.) what is the bigger picture/strategic vision?
    d.) what is being lost/gained?

    If those 4 questions can be answered by its critics, I accept.

    Oddly, much of what was crtiqued before or at proposal (City Quarter for example) is now praised by its once critics – note the http://www.corksouthwest.com website’s comments on CQ – then contrast those comments of the CSD members at the time of proposal.

    The thread (noe I) also does/do NOT endorse EVERY development – please review its posts. On many occassions conditions of grant or refusal has been praised (i.e. Grangefield’s Arbutus Lodge development; Mark Kelleher’s conditioning re: resident objection on balconies; the original Mannix proposal; BrideView’s LakeView development; Ruden Homes’ Lenagh More development; SHUL’s Tellenganna Lodge development etc etc). It’s not all pro pro pro. But it does stress that developments as well as objections must be scrutinised/well-informed before submitted. It can’t all be one-sided. Besides my odd banter, more and more (I from my stance) have tried to reduced ‘opinion’ and keep it more of a sort of ‘reporting’ style posts – simply to inform. But opinion is opinion and as has been expressed here by many, each individual is entitled to it.

    Furthermore, the thread, is always open to input – if one element is less successful over another – that is the responsibility of those involved – not the collective. I have, for example, attempted to set up other threads such as ‘Interesting Lesser Knowns’ to balance and embrace the existing nature and designs of buildings throughout Cork (from all walks of life) and, with Thomond Park, a thread on the Footbridges of Cork to assess that side of architecture. This was to show input into these fields and perhaps provide balance to the LADSOCL thread.

    However, I am glad that this thread has been appointed, because the opportunity should now be utilised to continue embracing this aspect of architecture in the city. There is a rich mix and it should be recognised. I’m glad Devin has provided such a great post and I would hope, from my perspective, others (myself included) could continue this quality standard. LADSOCL is not the ONLY Cork-thread, so I suppose it should not be referred to as, ‘the Cork thread’. Many others have provided wonderful threads around various aspects of the city and county and this should be recognised. I don’t see why both sides of the coin (as pier39 above puts it, cannot be embraced. As I said, both sides affect the architecture and nature of the city – and both need to be addressed.

    I should hope that this thread doesn’t become a spat ground and we can continue to move with the good foundations laid by it already.



    And as by way of interest, the Buckley Bros. facade is be remodelled by proprietor Edward Moriarty, which is a great shame. I had been hoping it would rather be refurbished.

    As for the facades on Parnell Place, both are protected but have been inexcusablly allowed to decay by both the site owners and by Cork City Council. Plans are in planning to refurbished these facades to their former glory as a front for a very tasteful hotel, as the site behind them is nothing more than vacant space and any further delays may see the facades lost for good.

  • #757008

    jungle
    Participant

    It’s very disappointing to learn that the Buckley’s shopfront is to be remodelled. It’s very distinctive and a lot more interesting than the twee reproduction shopfronts that are being encouraged by the corporation.

    My own view on development in Cork is that there should be a line drawn through the city centre at Parnell Place. There are few old buildings of merit east of that line – perhaps the harbour commissioners offices and a few warehouses. It can support larger developments along the lines of Lapp’s Quay. West of it is a more sensitive area that should be reserved for refurbishments and infills with the exception of a few sites that are suitable for development – Guys, anything that hides the North Main St multi-storey.

    Looking at the pictures of the houses on Grenville Place (Bachelor’s Quay) could make you fearful for the future. The houses are definitely in need of some TLC, and it would be tragic to see them becoming derelict and knocked for development. As well as their architectural merit, they also have significance because one of them was George Boole’s house.

  • #757009

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    A few words:
    The redbrick has been a carpark entrance for years, and seems to be surviving against the odds. Which isn’t to say it will remain forever. It gets a little worse every time I visit. 🙁
    Graham- the slate-hung bow fronted building is one of three (I think)- one of my favourite groups in the whole country. Kinsale has even more (though not bow-fronted).
    What I’ve always liked about Cork is that it feels like a city that people actually live in. Not that it doesn’t have large suburbs, but there’s a vibrancy about the city centre that’s lacking from so much of Dublin. And hilly areas such as Sunday’s Well give the city so much of its character- some of the best city walks in Ireland are to be had in Cork.
    However, I don’t think much of Patrick Street (are only locals allowed to call it Pana?)- too fussy and too many material contrasts, though obviously an improvement on whatwent before.
    Devin- you say you hope a ‘proper audit’ of the docks buildings is done. The NIAH (where I used to work) carried out a full survey of the city centre in the late 1990s, but with characteristic Government dynamism I don’t think it was ever published. It did, however, get into the hands of the City council, so perhaps all is not lost?

    Also, on the subject of the churches, when I was recording for that Cork survey I ducked into the French Church for a look at the interior, where I met a homeless guy who was feeling very down, so much so that he asked me to write his suicide note as he couldn’t write. At first I refused, but he said that if I didn’t then he’d kill himself and nobody would know why (the reason, sadly but perhaps not surprisingly, was institutional abuse as a child), so I consented. I don’t think he went through with it (I got the feeling he really just wanted someone to listen) but it has stayed with me to this day.
    It made architectural recording seem very insignificant.

  • #757010

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Good Lord ctesiphon – well you’ve halted this thread in its tracks…
    What a difficult situation to be confronted with.
    Good on you for staying with him, most people would run a mile – though maybe not those in a church.

    For what it’s worth, it’s a beautiful building.

  • #757011

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    Aye- sorry if I bummed anyone out, but I find it hard to think of a place without thinking of the stories that the place has generated. And I do really think he just wanted to talk, so we sat a while.

    To get the thread back on track (as maybe only the derailer can), are those green shopfronts the same as the black ones still seen in some towns? Vitrolite, I think they are, with the chrome trim. Another little-appreciated feature of the Irish town- too modern for the dyed-in-the-wool heritage-conservationist, too tatty and reminiscent of a poorer period of Irish history for the progressives.

  • #757012

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    took the opportunity to split the virotlits comments into their own thread – think it could be a good discussion

    http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4058

  • #757013

    Devin
    Participant

    ctesiphon, your story about the guy in the church seems pertinent to the thread; the city retains a humanity that Dublin had until, say, the ‘80s, but doesn’t have anymore.

    I’m glad to hear Cork has been recorded – it must have been some undertaking, with the density of older fabric in areas like Shandon. Wonder why it has not been published / uploaded? – I worked for the NIAH myself too, on the Kildare survey in 2002 (it’s been published).

    That group of slate-hung bow-fronts on Gnd. Parade are great alright (Graham, no, I don’t have a picture) – but a slight disappointment is that their sash windows are recent remakes with incorrect sash horns. There’s a really great bow-front in Waterford with all of its original window joinery – I might post it soon.

    @jungle wrote:

    My own view on development in Cork is that there should be a line drawn through the city centre at Parnell Place. There are few old buildings of merit east of that line – perhaps the harbour commissioners offices and a few warehouses. It can support larger developments along the lines of Lapp’s Quay. West of it is a more sensitive area that should be reserved for refurbishments and infills with the exception of a few sites that are suitable for development – Guys, anything that hides the North Main St multi-storey.

    I have no doubt this is true, Jungle. I would just worry about certain views on the LADSOCL thread. I can’t obviously comment on individual streets / developments because I don’t know what’s going on there on a daily basis and don’t have the same intimate knowledge of the city that the Cork contributors have. But I know that An Taisce Cork have been very good and have carefully monitored development in Cork over the past number of years, and prevented some over scaled and/or poor quality proposals, which, if permitted, would have damaged the historic character of the city centre. Naturally if you want anything and everything to fly through the planning system you’re going to have a problem with this.

    Buckley Bros.
    It is disgraceful that Buckley Bros is going to be removed. I know the owner has to get on with their business, but could he/she not leave the current one in situ underneath a new front at least?

    This is the other one on Oliver Plunkett Street. A real gem & a great example of the indigenous shops that survive so well in Cork:

    (I’ve got some existing / disappearing vitrolite fronts from around the country which I might stick on the other thread)

  • #757014

    lexington
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    @devin wrote:

    That group of slate-hung bow-fronts on Gnd. Parade are great alright (Graham, no, I don’t have a picture)

    I have some images of these buildings and will post them as soon as I can find them. I love thatentire corner of Grand Parade – from the monument to the RBS Building.

  • #757015

    jungle
    Participant

    @devin wrote:

    I have no doubt this is true, Jungle. I would just worry about certain views on the LADSOCL thread. I can’t obviously comment on individual streets / developments because I don’t know what’s going on there on a daily basis and don’t have the same intimate knowledge of the city that the Cork contributors have. But I know that An Taisce Cork have been very good and have carefully monitored development in Cork over the past number of years, and prevented some over scaled and/or poor quality proposals, which, if permitted, would have damaged the historic character of the city centre. Naturally if you want anything and everything to fly through the planning system you’re going to have a problem with this.

    I certainly don’t want to see everything fly through the planning system. Some of the newer buildings east of Parnell Place have been pretty rotten – Penrose Wharf, the Simon building. Both of these buildings should have been stopped on aesthetic grounds, but I guess they were built in the early 90s when the city council were glad to see any money going into the area.

    However, much of the area consists of semi-derilict warehousing and warehousing that has been converted to light industrial use. I don’t feel that the level of planning sensitivity required here is the same as in the western end of the city centre where how a new building fits into the existing built area must be taken into account.

    @lexington wrote:

    I wouldn’t entirely agree with that. I have agreed and even assisted An Taisce (yes, it is a miracle) with some of their more recent objections regarding some completely unsatisfactory developments within the city. But they have also taken the mickey themselves on a number of occassions and have acted quite negatively (eg City Quarter sculpture) toward developments which they have sinced u-turned on.

    Was the objection to the City Quarter sculpture from An Taisce or from an individual who happened to be a member of An Taisce?

    As for architecture in Cork, does anyone have any decent pictures of the GPO in Cork? I think it is an elegant and underappreciated building. This is probably because it’s hard to stand in a position where you can take in the whole facade because of the narrow streets around it. I looked for pics on the web, but only found ones where you could see part of the building and Oliver Plunkett St was flooded, so Ithought they probably didn’t do it justice 😀

  • #757016

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    Devin (The Cork folks mighn’t like this diversion, but I’ll be brief)-

    Is the bow-fronted building in Waterford the one a few doors down from the Tower Hotel, near the splendid redbrick Georgian terrace? If so, it’s been one of my favourite buildings in the whole country since we started going on family holidays in Co. Waterford 25 years ago. I did notice, though, that it’s been comprehensively refurbished in the last couple of years. At least it’ll finally be occupied, after too long slowly crumbling. Did it retain its windows?

    (Waterford City, NIAH, mid- to late 1990s, unpublished- do I detect a pattern?)

  • #757017

    PTB
    Participant

    If you look about the county towns, youghal is one that comes to mind, of Cork you can still find a few of those old fifties style shopfronts. Though they are a bit dated I find that they still look fine.

  • #757018

    lexington
    Participant

    I very stupidly deleted Post #22 by editing rather than quoting it – but at least the Grand Parade/RBS images are up.

  • #757019

    jungle
    Participant

    @jungle wrote:

    As for architecture in Cork, does anyone have any decent pictures of the GPO in Cork?

    After asking that, I find a picture on this site. I don’t thing the picture really does the building justice, but it would take some seriously expensive camera equipement to take the shot I’d like to see.

  • #757020

    Boyler
    Participant

    From this picture, you’d think the GPO was small and nothing special.
    It would be nice to start a thread about Galway city and county, don’t you agree?

  • #757021

    Devin
    Participant

    @ctesiphon wrote:

    Devin…Is the bow-fronted building in Waterford the one a few doors down from the Tower Hotel?

    Yes. I have also heard it’s been refurbished & that the magnificent windows with their slender doric-columed mullions have been repaired and retained 🙂 .

    Here it was in a sorry state in 2002 – it had sat vacant like this for many years, I understand:

    The overhang in the sashes was still very lucid after 200 years:

  • #757022

    -Donnacha-
    Participant

    that bow-fronted building on the mall, waterford was completely rebuilt following demolition recently – i’m almost sure the entire building was taken down – it is also seen as being significant because it was the frst building that the irish tricolour was flown – by thomas francis meagher – who now has a new home outside the tower hotel

  • #757023

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Thomas Francis Meagher or the flag? 🙂

    What an unusual feature those columns are – always great to see curved sashes too.
    Presumably if the building was completely rebuilt it was in danger of collapse – and also the wndows and internal features were salvaged?

  • #757024

    Devin
    Participant

    Presumably if the building was completely rebuilt it was in danger of collapse

    So it seems. I hadn’t realised it yesterday when I posted those pictures, but I’ve made further inquiries & it’s true what bunch says; the building was taken down and rebuilt. Apparently it had a lot of structural timber which had deteriorated, and was generally past the point of being repaired and stabilised.

    But the bit about the sashes is true; they’ve been reused in the new building…I have to go down to Waterford now and see that….

  • #757025

    lexington
    Participant

    Those Grand Parade slate/bow buildings I promised (Moloney Solicitors/Property Team among others). Not the best images but you get the idea.

  • #757026

    lexington
    Participant

    A fading sight in Irish urban areas – though I know a few still remain especially in Dublin. This terrace jumps on the unsuspecting stroller like a pleasant surprise along Dalton’s Avenue, off Cornmarket Street. Unfortunately, at the time of this image’s capture, Kerry Drain Services had lines of machinery and traffic cones closing off the avenue as part of investigations on drainage for Rockfell Investment’s Cornmarket Street development nearby. If you can block out the foreground and take in the street, I think you’ll agree it is rather charming. What I find most interesting is the lady in the centre of the image touching up the mosaic – community pride alive and well?

  • #757027

    anto
    Participant

    Nice terrace alright. Pity about the wheely bins though. They’re a blight on a lot of terraced houses now. Reminds me of an area behind the Cinema in Dun Laoghaire

  • #757028

    Andrew Duffy
    Participant

    Quite a Northwest England feel to that terrace. Is it a railway embankment at the end?

  • #757029

    tjomeara
    Participant

    [

    (Waterford City, NIAH, mid- to late 1990s, unpublished- do I detect a pattern?)[/QUOTE]

    Waterford City was published as part of the Waterford County Survey in late 2003/early 2004
    Cork City has just been published and can be found at http://www.buildingsofireland.ie

  • #757030

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    @tjomeara wrote:

    Waterford City was published as part of the Waterford County Survey in late 2003/early 2004
    Cork City has just been published and can be found at http://www.buildingsofireland.ie

    TJ-

    Was the full Waterford City survey published, or was it just the old NIAH chestnut of a ‘representative sample’? If memory serves, there were roughly 2000 records in the original survey, which is more than the full county survey now contains.

    Cheers.

  • #757031

    tjomeara
    Participant

    Ctesiphon

    The NIAH are only publishing structures on the web that are considered to be of ‘Regional’ importance and above. Search for Waterford under the ‘town’ in the Waterford Survey on the NIAH website. I think around 900 sites were rated as being of ‘Regional’ importance and above in and around Waterford City.

  • #757032

    lexington
    Participant

    🙂 This building may not strike you as much on first glance, but to those of you familiar with the junction of North Main Street, Castle Street and Paradise Place – you may remember that corner house between North Main Street and Castle Street. For years this building has been smothered in a series of unflattering and dogish paint coats. From Mustard Yellow to Tangerine. Thankfully the building’s proprietors enlisted Shane Construction to given the fading glory of this structure a new lease on life. The fabulous traditional brickwork has been revealed once again, the details of the design uncovered, the history reborn – unfortunately the image below fails to focus the individual brickwork and so on, however, I will try to get a better quality image in the future. The building reflects the refurbishment of nearby Fenn’s Quay – among Ireland’s oldest original terraced houses still in full show. It begs questions as to what lies beneath the unsightly paint skins of other surrounding structures?

    Congratulations to Shane Construction who did a fine job on the conservation exercise – I hear the upper floors have been returned to former glories and would love an opportunity to expect the building first hand. :D(?) It’s worth noting the shop-front has been alter to a far more suitable, less tacky style – I believe large yellow ‘Smile Faces’ with large white and red cartoon fonts had adorned this building for quite some period – the retail units operated as a mobile phone covers store.

    I think anyone familiar with this building, and what had gone before it, will appreciate the refurbished form.



    Andrew Duffy – regarding Dalton’s Avenue, no, the terrace abuts a former warehousing facility (in the same ye olde red brick style) – which is now being redeveloped by Rockfell Investments.

  • #757033

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    @tjomeara wrote:

    Ctesiphon

    The NIAH are only publishing structures on the web that are considered to be of ‘Regional’ importance and above. Search for Waterford under the ‘town’ in the Waterford Survey on the NIAH website. I think around 900 sites were rated as being of ‘Regional’ importance and above in and around Waterford City.

    TJ-

    Thanks for that clarification- though I’d be of the opinion that in order to decide what buildings are Regional, it is necessary to survey everything first, not just the ones that appear to be Regional on a cursory inspection. But then again, I’d be of the old school where the NIAH methodology is concerned, and we all know how much got published in the (ahem) formative years… :rolleyes:

  • #757034

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    🙂 Thankfully the building’s proprietors enlisted Shane Construction to given the fading glory of this structure a new lease on life. The fabulous traditional brickwork has been revealed once again, the details of the design uncovered, the history reborn – unfortunately the image below fails to focus the individual brickwork and so on, however, I will try to get a better quality image in the future. The building reflects the refurbishment of nearby Fenn’s Quay – among Ireland’s oldest original terraced houses still in full show. It begs questions as to what lies beneath the unsightly paint skins of other surrounding structures?

    I’m wondering, did this building benefit from sponsored shroud advertising, or was the work carried out without such input, i.e. by an enlightened client? (Ref. thread below.)

    http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4024

  • #757035

    sw101
    Participant

    nice segue.

  • #757036

    tjomeara
    Participant

    @ctesiphon wrote:

    TJ-

    Thanks for that clarification- though I’d be of the opinion that in order to decide what buildings are Regional, it is necessary to survey everything first, not just the ones that appear to be Regional on a cursory inspection. But then again, I’d be of the old school where the NIAH methodology is concerned, and we all know how much got published in the (ahem) formative years… :rolleyes:

    Yeah, that’s it ctesiphone. A full survey takes years and in that time many structures would be lost. The NIAH are currently involved in a primary, rapid survey for each county. It is in no way a definitive list. After the initial survey is complete I would imagine a more thorough national one will follow. All a matter of stages…

  • #757037

    lexington
    Participant

    @ctesiphon wrote:

    I’m wondering, did this building benefit from sponsored shroud advertising, or was the work carried out without such input, i.e. by an enlightened client? (Ref. thread below.)

    http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4024

    No such advertising ctesiphon – the brickwork really is attractive. As I said, it’s difficult to make out the detail in the posted image. It’s amazing to see what had been hidden under so much tack for so many years. I would actively encourage other proprietors along North Main Street and South Main Street (2 of Cork’s oldest streets by far) to embrace the same revitalisation of their buildings.

  • #757038

    GrahamH
    Participant

    It’s looking a bit shell-shocked after that stripping down – as buildings tend to 🙂

    The cornice looks very strange up there in the context of the brick work; presumably left over from the plastering job?
    Attractive nonetheless, and an especially welcome retention if helps convey the architectural history of the building.

    @lexington wrote:

    Where did the idea for the green paint come from though – is it left over from pre-restoration?! It’s kinda quirky all the same, but perhaps a cream scheme, matching the render band above the ground floor would look just that bit better 🙂

    The sashes in this pic appear to have no horns which make them a bit clinical-looking – maybe they are extant and visible in ‘real life’.

  • #757039

    Radioactiveman
    Participant

    Here’s a picture of this building prior to recent renovation. I believe from late 2003.

    I think lex may have exagerated the condition it was in previously:
    “For years this building has been smothered in a series of unflattering and dogish paint coats. From Mustard Yellow to Tangerine.”

    Also, here’s some more images of the GPO on Oliver Plunkett Street.


    And while i’m at it, an image of more bow-fronted buildings. This time on the Grand Parade end of Oliver Plunkett Street (No’s 76 and 77)..

    Finally, a fabulous building further down the street. A remnant of an industrial past.

  • #757040

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Those bow-fronts are just fantastic!
    The windows marching into the distance on the GPO is very attractive too.

    As for the restored building – ah 🙂

    The cornice is clearly just another bizarre feature peculiar to that mad city of yours 😀
    Have to say though that the chequered brickwork is quite attractive in its gritty urban state in that pic.

  • #757041

    Devin
    Participant

    Cork is great for bow-fronts & curving buildings.
    They are practically non-existent in Dublin – unless you count that one that curves from Lincoln Place into Merrion St., beside the Ullyses chemist.

  • #757042

    altuistic
    Participant

    @radioactiveman wrote:

    Here’s a picture of this building prior to recent renovation. I believe from late 2003.

    I think lex may have exagerated the condition it was in previously:

    the building was painted until early 98 when it was stripped to brickwork again prbably the reason for many of its odd colorations. Musterd and a series of dastardly other colors did adorn this structure over the years. I have been looking at it every day for the last 23 years since i moved home from the states.

  • #757043

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    @devin wrote:

    Cork is great for bow-fronts & curving buildings.
    They are practically non-existent in Dublin – unless you count that one that curves from Lincoln Place into Merrion St., beside the Ullyses chemist.

    There’s also that one at the top of Dawson Street- used to be the sewing shop, now the tourist whiskey shop (and if that ain’t a metaphor for our culture…), with those elegant shallow bows above ground floor level.

    And the one opposite Enfo on Andrew’s Street- just a curving terrace, but worth mentioning as they are so unusual in the Dublin context, as you say.

    Again, sorry everyone for Dublining up a Cork thread- but it arises from our jealousy of your felicitous sweeps. 🙂

  • #757044

    Radioactiveman
    Participant

    @altuistic wrote:

    Musterd and a series of dastardly other colors did adorn this structure over the years. I have been looking at it every day for the last 23 years since i moved home from the states.

    God help you 🙂
    I stand corrected though.

    @ctesiphon wrote:

    Again, sorry everyone for Dublining up a Cork thread- but it arises from our jealousy of your felicitous sweeps. 🙂

    Work away, we’re very good like that in cork 🙂

  • #757045

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    @radioactiveman wrote:

    Work away, we’re very good like that in cork 🙂

    Aah- that famous Leeside modesty. 🙂

  • #757046

    Andrew Duffy
    Participant

    the tourist whiskey shop

    … is actually the best-stocked spirits seller in the country, and fairly reasonably priced too. The staff put those in the stuffy Mitchell’s one street over to shame.

  • #757047

    GrahamH
    Participant

    @andrew Duffy wrote:

    stuffy Mitchell’s

    Hmmm, another building with a curved window. How very strange…

  • #757048

    Devin
    Participant

    @ctesiphon wrote:

    There’s also that one at the top of Dawson Street- used to be the sewing shop, now the tourist whiskey shop (and if that ain’t a metaphor for our culture…), with those elegant shallow bows above ground floor level.

    That’s a lovely facade…..very provincial English. A girl was asking about it a while ago, if anyone can help – http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=2551&highlight=Dawson – (when she says windows, I presume she means the bows)

  • #757049

    Anonymous
    Participant

    @radioactiveman wrote:

    Here’s a picture of this building prior to recent renovation. I believe from late 2003.

    I think lex may have exagerated the condition it was in previously:
    “For years this building has been smothered in a series of unflattering and dogish paint coats. From Mustard Yellow to Tangerine.”

    Also, here’s some more images of the GPO on Oliver Plunkett Street.


    And while i’m at it, an image of more bow-fronted buildings. This time on the Grand Parade end of Oliver Plunkett Street (No’s 76 and 77)..

    Finally, a fabulous building further down the street. A remnant of an industrial past.

    There are more than a few buildings I can think of that could do with a similar treatment

  • #757050

    lexington
    Participant

    Post keeps failing to load each time I attempt. Will leave it for now and try to get back to it later.

    The post regards the buildings of Parnell Place, with images – including 93 South Mall, the Trust Savings Bank, those unfortunate and shamefully neglected Beasely facades and that beautiful ‘Doll’s House’ between the TSB and Crown Centre – just like the house on Emmett Place, its a beautiful and rare example of another era of architecture (which one I’m not sure) – but the design and detail are just beautiful!

    Will try and get back to this.

  • #757051

    Devin
    Participant

    This is an entry from a ‘Buildings at Risk’ publication for Cork* for the Parnell Place/South Mall buldings (also pic here posted by d_d_dallas on Page 1: http://www.archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=812 ) :

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The Camden Quay houses mentioned on Page1 were for the chop at one point too 😮 :

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Also, a rear view – from ‘Citi Car Park’ – of the slate-hung bow-fronted houses on Grand Parade….remains of funny rear site building with vaulting :

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    * Cork’s Built Heritage by C.P. Hunter & S. Hunter, 2001

  • #757052

    lexington
    Participant

    I agree Devin that the facades at 17 & 18 Parnell Place have been shamefully neglected. A hotel is currently proposed for the vacant site to the rear. In all fairness, the proposal is most sympathetic to the facades, revamping and incorporating them into the new structure – with a plesant slated roof spanning both structures. The application is currently in Further Information – but I should hope that it is successful as I look forward to the day when these beautiful structures are returned to their former glory. The central arched window of No.17 can be visualized in my head illuminated butter yellow from a internal light source, revitalising and reinstating a level of window detail that is long lost on so many modern projects. The facades would make a fine frontage. My worry is, and anyone who recently has seen these facades may also agree, is that the current state of the structures is such that one wonders whether or not they will survive the period the hotel application seems to be taking through planning!!! Their loss would be unforgiveable.



    As for Camden Quay, those buildings were purchased by OSB Group, and have been retained and will be refurbished as part of the works on the Camden Court project to their rear. One of the buildings currently homes offices of James Leahy & Associates, the architects responsible for Camden Court’s interesting design. Noteworthy also is the characteristic olde-worlde Maud Whelan’s Pub (north along John Redmond Street, beside these buildings) which is also being refurbished and given a new lease of life as we speak. If anyone has images of that building, it would be nice to see it posted.

  • #757053

    Lillie
    Participant

    Hi All
    new to this site as of today. Quick query for all you experts out there – anyone know how academy street got its name? Have done some research in the city library local history reference section to no avail.
    BTW – I’m involved in branding and visual design and particularly interested in how brands for developments/buildings etc can be more meaningful, coherent and sympathetic to the architectural vision and function as well as performing a marketing function. But if we acknowledge that branding is about possessing specific real estate in a consumer’s mind (to slightly misquote one of the brand gurus) does this forum see any successes or failures in this regard in Cork?

  • #757054

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Mahon Point… noone wants to go to Mahon

    I jest.

  • #757055

    GrahamH
    Participant

    That latter image is so typical of Irish towns – decaying Georgian buildings fronting the main streets, with surface car-parking to the rears, sited on cleared gardens or back yards with mews buildings demolished – the only traces left being rubble stone walls flanking the sites featuring filled-in brick arches and remnants of internal walls protruding to the sides.

    Interesting that the slates prevail even to the rear in Cork – they seem to have been ripped off the other/s 😡

    Yes they are quite bizzare arches, what would they have been used for: carriage storage with accommodation above?

  • #757056

    Devin
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    …..the Camden Quay buildings……………… Noteworthy also is the characteristic olde-worlde Maud Whelan’s Pub (north along John Redmond Street, beside these buildings) which is also being refurbished and given a new lease of life as we speak. If anyone has images of that building, it would be nice to see it posted.

    The building you refer to as being under refurbishment (above) has just been fitted with PVC sash windows and PVC shop windows…….(??)

  • #757057

    lexington
    Participant

    @devin wrote:

    Buckley Bros.
    It is disgraceful that Buckley Bros is going to be removed. I know the owner has to get on with their business, but could he/she not leave the current one in situ underneath a new front at least?

    Butlers Irish Chocolates are steaming ahead with the recladding of the former Buckley Bros. shopfront. It remains vitrolite, but in a more fashionable ‘black’ tone now. This is fine but the original ‘green’ colouration and metallic signage was far more unusual and had a retro-charm about it. With a little refurbishment, the shopfront could well have lasted into the future and as Graham Hickey once noted, it could – for the sake of Butlers’ sales pitch – remind one of ‘mint chocolate’! :p

  • #757058

    lexington
    Participant

    Must say the GPO on Oliver Plunkett Street looks very well lately since its refurbishment – next time I’m out and about I must try and get a snapshot of it.

    Meanwhile, the refurbishment and redevelopment of the Old Mill on Father Matthew Quay is steaming ahead t great effect. It’s encouraging to see such an effective reuse of such long neglected structures and a tasty blend between old and new. The same may be said for the incoporation of No.17/18 Parnell Place into the new Pitwood hotel (in appeal).

  • #757059

    lexington
    Participant

    Some great images provided on a link highlighted by Graham Hickey, I think well worth sharing.

    I apologise that I do not have the name of the copyright holder but please note this link -> http://nemesis.co.jyu.fi/~mikyrjol/photos/digital/ireland_2005/index.html as the source.


    Cork Courthouse – speaks for itself.


    The eastern elevation @ St. Fin Barre’s Cathedral – the famous ‘Golden Archangel’ notably visible. An undisputed William Burges masterpiece.


    Inside St. Fin Barre’s.

  • #757060

    A-ha
    Participant

    Wow…. talk about great pics. That one of the courthouse is fabulous. It looks as magnificant now as it did when it was built first day.

  • #757061

    anto
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    Some great images provided on a link highlighted by Graham Hickey, I think well worth sharing.

    I apologise that I do not have the name of the copyright holder but please note this link -> http://nemesis.co.jyu.fi/~mikyrjol/photos/digital/ireland_2005/index.html as the source.


    Cork Courthouse – speaks for itself.


    The eastern elevation @ St. Fin Barre’s Cathedral – the famous ‘Golden Archangel’ notably visible. An undisputed William Burges masterpiece.


    Inside St. Fin Barre’s.

    No reordering there I’d say!

  • #757062

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    What I love about St Fin Barres is that it’s so small – its a scaled down cathedral. The interior is so much better than the exterior though, where I think the shortness of the plan really manifests itself

  • #757063

    lexington
    Participant

    Source:Cork Camera Club

    Bachelor’s Quay

    The photograph shows workmen repairing paving stones on Bachelor’s Quay. Bachelor’s Quay was once a fashionable promenade and the site of the houses of wealthy businessmen. When the wealthier citizens of Cork left the city centre for the more fashionable suburbs their former houses on Bachelor’s Quay became tenements. Some fine Georgian structures remain today toward the western end of the quay, although they are in dire need of renovation. In this image, the original copper-edged North Gate Bridge (an infinitely more attractive specimen than its existing counterpart) can be seen in the background.

    Rope Walk

    Crawling up the steep northern slopes to Sunday’s Well from the site formerly servant to Irish Distillers just off North MallRope Walk was the site of a rope-walk where ropes were formed by the process of laying and stranding lengths of spun yarn. The imposing figure of St. Vincent’s Cathedral can be seen in the background.

    Dunscombe Fountain – lower Shandon Street

    The fountain which stood near the foot of Shandon Street was known as the Dunscombe Testimonial Fountain. The Dunscombe family had been associated with Cork since the seventeenth century. The area around the fountain was used by street vendors selling clothes. Holly and ivy was sold there during Christmas.

    Saint Patrick’s Quay

    Given the prospect of the quaysides redevelopment – see here; it is perhaps worthy of reflection on the quays former incarnation. Like most of the quays in Cork, Saint Patrick’s Quay was constructed during the nineteenth century. The quays along the North Channel are generally founded on massed concrete. The quay walls are built from rubble masonry and faced with limestone behind timber pilings. At the time the photograph was taken in 1939, the premises on the quay included garages, public houses, offices of shipping agents, coal merchants’ stores and the coal stores of the Metropole Hotel. Note the active uses along Merchant’s Quay to the south (left).



    @paul Clerkin wrote:

    What I love about St Fin Barres is that it’s so small – its a scaled down cathedral. The interior is so much better than the exterior though, where I think the shortness of the plan really manifests itself

    I find a comparison of the the former incranation of St. Fin Barre’s Cathedral quite striking when weighed against the Burges’ creation – the former pales in comparison, and amazingly maintains the same sacred site with almost no variation in parameters build-on-build. See below.

  • #757064

    kite
    Participant
    lexington wrote:
    Source:Cork Camera Club

    Bachelor’s Quay

    The photograph shows workmen repairing paving stones on Bachelor’s Quay. Bachelor’s Quay was once a fashionable promenade and the site of the houses of wealthy businessmen. When the wealthier citizens of Cork left the city centre for the more fashionable suburbs their former houses on Bachelor’s Quay became tenements. Some fine Georgian structures remain today toward the western end of the quay, although they are in dire need of renovation. In this image, the original copper-edged North Gate Bridge (an infinitely more attractive specimen than its existing counterpart) can be seen in the background.

    😎 Great photos, is that Quay now called the North Mall?, can’t figure it out.

  • #757065

    lexington
    Participant

    @kite wrote:

    😎 Great photos, is that Quay now called the North Mall?, can’t figure it out.

    No – North Mall is the opposite side of the river, visible in that image to the left. Bachelor’s Quay borders Grenville Place and is accessible from North Mall using the beautiful iron Distillery Bridge. Among the Georgians along this quayside is the former residence of George Boole.

  • #757066

    kite
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    No – North Mall is the opposite side of the river, visible in that image to the left. Bachelor’s Quay borders Grenville Place and is accessible from North Mall using the beautiful iron Vincent’s Bridge. Among the Georgians along this quayside is the former residence of George Boole.

    Thanks for that, should have been able to figure that out for myself with Shandon in view…Sunday,,too many beers ect. ect.

  • #757067

    Radioactiveman
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    No – North Mall is the opposite side of the river, visible in that image to the left. Bachelor’s Quay borders Grenville Place and is accessible from North Mall using the beautiful iron Distillery Bridge. Among the Georgians along this quayside is the former residence of George Boole.

    It’s St. Vincents Bridge.

    Found that image of Rope Walk very interesting. is that row of houses still there?

  • #757068

    lexington
    Participant

    First off, an image of the Courthouse on Washington Street – one I’ve tried, but failed to capture in my own time, and I believe gives a good perspective of the building which is often difficult to encompass through photography from this angle given its proximity to buildings on the south side of the street.

    The present Cork Courthouse was built in 1895 and stands on the site of the original 1836 Courthouse designed by George Richard Pain and his brother James which was destroyed by fire in 1891. A competition was subsequently instigated by the Corporation of Cork and the Commissioners, in which there was a condition requiring the preservation of the portico and fa

  • #757069

    Radioactiveman
    Participant

    Regarding the statue of Justice on top of the Courthouse….It might be my imagination, but was that missing for years?
    Im not talking about during the renovations, but before that, I cant remember it being in place and there are certainly some images which i’ve seen from the 80’s/90’s which dont include the statue. Any ideas?

  • #757070

    anto
    Participant

    Court house looks very well now, scandal it took so long to complete.
    Yeah it’s a shame that it’s not at the end of some long vista. The Fransiscan church behind the court house suffers from this as well. Not sure if that Bysantine concotion is everybody’s cup of tea

  • #757071

    brainscan
    Participant

    @radioactiveman wrote:

    Regarding the statue of Justice on top of the Courthouse….It might be my imagination, but was that missing for years?
    Im not talking about during the renovations, but before that, I cant remember it being in place and there are certainly some images which i’ve seen from the 80’s/90’s which dont include the statue. Any ideas?

    I remember watching it being removed about 10 years ago. A few years later I met a Dublin Art student who had come down to Cork to write a thesis about sculptures of Hibernia. She told me that is was strewn about the National Scuplture Factory in a very poor state of repair. Great to see it back in its original glory atop one of my favourite buildings in Cork.

    PS. The sculpture is titled “Justice, Hibernia & Commerce” by Thomas Kirk.

  • #757072

    lexington
    Participant

    The foundation stone of Cork City Hall along Terence MacSweeney Quay was laid by Eamon de Valera on the 9 July 1932. The present building replaces the former City Hall which was destroyed during the burning of Cork in 1920 and was designed by the Dublin-based architectural practice Jones & Kelly. Constructed by John Sisk & Sons Ltd, some departments of Cork Corporation opened in the new building in March 1935 and on the 24 April 1935 Cork Corporation held a meeting in the new hall for the first time. The City Hall was officially opened by Eamon de Valera on the 8 September 1936.


    Not long after construction – Cork City Hall, late 1930s.

    The building is faced with dressed limestone quarried in Little Island and incorporates an elegant concert hall.


    City Hall at Night

    Faced with growing pressures on office accommodation – more and more departments of Cork City Council were forced to occupy numerous premises off-site and away from City Hall. The City Council initiated a plan to develop a ‘one-stop’ civic offices destination on a site to the rear (south) of City Hall between Eglinton Street and Anglesea Street. A competition was tendered by the council which was won by a bid from Cleary Doyle Contractors and their design team, ABK Architects. Construction commenced on site in late 2004/early 2005 for an extension comprising of 90,000sq ft of news offices and 400 + parking spaces (basementa and roof-top).



    Images of the new Cork City Hall Extension designed by ABK Architects, built by Cleary Doyle Contractors – construction is scheduled for completion in early 2006.


    Some images of Cork City Hall facing south from Lapps Quay and South Mall respectively.
    Images the copyright of John Herriott.

  • #757073

    GrahamH
    Participant

    How does it impact on the side elevation?
    Whereas it’s no great shakes as a piece of civic architecture, it is a stand-alone building, with multiple elevations, a riverside positioning, and of a severe design suited to such isolation.

    A great pity it is to be invaded on like that. The corner park there proves especially pleasant with the side elevation as backdrop – especially as you come over the bridge or along the approaching quay.

  • #757074

    dowlingm
    Participant

    I have less problem with the addition than I have the monstrous carbuncle of a carpark they shoved on the other side.

  • #757075

    POM
    Participant

    The extension plans for City Hall fail to excite me, they’re rather boring. Surely something more engaging was worthy of this location?

  • #757076

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Its standard ABK at this stage – see the interior of Tullamore offices for example

  • #757077

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Here’s the extension as it appears at the moment (apologies for image quality).

    And an image of the STW “designed” webworks on other side (most. boring. building. ever.)

    [Post updated with slightly clearer images]

  • #757078

    kite
    Participant

    @d_d_dallas wrote:

    Here’s the extension as it appears at the moment (apologies for image quality).

    And an image of the STW “designed” webworks on other side (most. boring. building. ever.)

    😮 A case of maximizing the profit margin no matter what cost to the city??

  • #757079

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Ah, the extension’s on that side, to the rear. Glad I made a mistake so 😮

    Hard to make out much of the exterior there, and nothing on their site…
    Looks rather cluttered and confusing, but the materials may resolve themselves.

  • #757080

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    My problem with the extension is that it’s massing tends to dominate that side of city hall – which is an ominous omen considering the approved project behind is of a much greater scale.

  • #757081

    POM
    Participant

    @d_d_dallas wrote:

    My problem with the extension is that it’s massing tends to dominate that side of city hall – which is an ominous omen considering the approved project behind is of a much greater scale.

    What approved project behind City Hall is of greater scale???

    I’m going to cut the Webworks a little slack until I see the finished product but taking it for what it is as is I would have to agree its utterly dull. Its hard to comprehend that looking across the river at City Quarter the 2 projects came from the same firm, the latter being much more colourful and tasteful in my opinion.

  • #757082

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    The eglinton st project which has been discussed on other threads…

  • #757083

    phil
    Participant

    @d_d_dallas wrote:

    Here’s the extension as it appears at the moment (apologies for image quality).

    And an image of the STW “designed” webworks on other side (most. boring. building. ever.)

    [Post updated with slightly clearer images]

    How is this extention shaping up now d_d? Has much more progress been made on it in the last two months or so?

  • #757084

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    sorry – haven’t seen it recently.

  • #757085

    phil
    Participant

    No problem D_D. I was just interested to see how it was progressing.

    Thanks,

    Phil

  • #757086

    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think the Court House must be one of the finest buildings of its period in the country; was the money spent on its restoration well spent?

  • #757087

    lexington
    Participant

    :p I meant to post this up yesterday whilst posting images of the Kino redevelopment nearby – I came across this image on CorkSpace as reminded of how much I genuinely like this much overlooked building at the junction of Hanover Street and Washington Street. Though plans for a 9-storey office building at Clontarf Street, currently in planning, may relate more to that of the Flatiron Building in Manhattan in terms of height and effect, this historic structure stands as an affectionately thought of ‘mini-version’ of the famous Daniel Burnham-designed building.


    Copyright of CorkSpace

    The Hive Iron Works was founded by Thomas Addison Barnes in 1800 but by 1819 it had been taken over by the Perrott family. The family is commemorated in the place name Perrott Avenue. The fortunes of the factory declined during the latter part of the nineteenth century although the Hive Iron Works was still producing iron castings well into the twentieth century. The building seen today at Hanover Street was occupied by the business from 1935 onwards following a takeover of the company’s original premises near Clarke’s Bridge.


    An old image taken showing the context of the building with respect to Washington Street – the northern elevation of the building has been subdivided into various commercial units and still bares the original painted signage (albeit much faded) of the Hive Iron operation.

  • #757088

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Stunning image I’m sure the designer of this building laboured long and hard over how to turn the corner

  • #757089

    lexington
    Participant

    Just to build on and update the details mentioned earlier in this thread on Cork City Hall’s ABK Architects designed extension: this is probably more suited to the Developments in Cork thread but here goes anyway…

    The proposal involves the centralisation of Cork City Council offices in a 90,000sq ft 4-storey extension to the rear of Cork City Hall – the winning design-build team was Cleary Doyle Contractors who had enlisted ABK Architects (as mentioned); here are the most up-to-date images available of the extension work.


    The extension’s main Anglesea Street elevation and its relation to Cork City Hall.


    The south-western corner of the Anglesea Street frontage – detailling the panelled/lourve system designed to provide circulation and insulation (temperature according) to the new building. The panels coat an interior frame with a gap of approx. 0.25 metres between shells.


    A perspective of the extension when viewed from lower South Mall – note the “FUN”nels atop – a maritime ventilation tribute? :p


    A courtyard between blocks – linked by an interior public walkway.

  • #757090

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Another image of extension to add…

  • #757091

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Not a fan of camden wharf, what do people think?

  • #757092

    kite
    Participant

    @d_d_dallas wrote:

    Not a fan of camden wharf, what do people think?

    🙁
    It certainly would not be in my top ten either, neither would the building to its left with what I assume is a copper clad roof, looking at this from the angle of your photograph it looks like the roof line was bent to shape as required with lumps and bumps everywhere.
    Micko makes a very good point on the “developments in cork” thread in relation to the Jacobs Mill building, he states;
    “There’s far too much focus on building height and not enough focus on the materials and looks of the building. The roof on that is a complete disgrace. And let I add that it took them at least 12 months just to get to the stage where they are at now”.

    Now do we blame the developers for asking for this type of building, or the planners for allowing them?

  • #757093

    POM
    Participant

    @kite wrote:

    🙁
    It certainly would not be in my top ten either, neither would the building to its left with what I assume is a copper clad roof,

    Now do we blame the developers for asking for this type of building, or the planners for allowing them?

    I disagree, I think the Camden Court scheme is actually one of the better designed projects in Cork at the moment. The use of limestone and copper materials harks back to those associated with the city many years ago offering a pleasant variation from the boring brick finishes of the projects either side of it on John Street and Camden Wharf. Its height is respectful to the Georgian terrace houses fronting the quayside, it gradually steps back and up to 6-storeys in a manner considered of its location. The forms found at roof-level are an interesting break from the standard and frankly boring precendent found across so many of the city’s developments – the flat, level roof-top. Thank your lucky stars this scheme was given the all-clear versus the previous proposal for the site.

  • #757094

    phil
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    :p I meant to post this up yesterday whilst posting images of the Kino redevelopment nearby – I came across this image on CorkSpace as reminded of how much I genuinely like this much overlooked building at the junction of Hanover Street and Washington Street. Though plans for a 9-storey office building at Clontarf Street, currently in planning, may relate more to that of the Flatiron Building in Manhattan in terms of height and effect, this historic structure stands as an affectionately thought of ‘mini-version’ of the famous Daniel Burnham-designed building.


    Copyright of CorkSpace
    [/I]

    I remember seeing this around this time last year. It is a little gem of a building as far as I am concerned. Thanks for posting it as a reminder Lexington.

  • #757095

    GregF
    Participant

    Kinda quirky isn’t it…..but plenty of character…If that was in Dublin it would have been knocked down for road widening development.

  • #757096

    THE_Chris
    Participant

    Its an odd thing, yeah. But its placement next to two roads means you wouldnt really gain anything by levelling it 🙂

  • #757097

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Indeed – a lovely building. It is curiosities like these that make urban spaces all the more interesting.

    Is this a rendering or a photograph d d dallas?
    Bizarre image!

    http://www.archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=2379&stc=1&d=1149451566

  • #757098

    lexington
    Participant

    @phil wrote:

    I remember seeing this around this time last year. It is a little gem of a building as far as I am concerned. Thanks for posting it as a reminder Lexington.

    My pleasure – again its a building I have a very soft spot for and feel it is too often overlooked. Must see if I can get a few images of the northern elevation (Washington Street frontage) up sometime.

  • #757099

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Graham,
    it’s a photo!

  • #757100

    phatman
    Participant

    @d_d_dallas wrote:

    Graham,
    it’s a photo!

    Really? It’s a reasonable question, that ‘photo’ looks like a still from Shrek or something. But anyway, shaping up better than I had anticipated. As for STW’s Albert Quay attempt (seeing as these buildings tend to be grouped together – proximity?) I think enough has been said. But if not, It’s not very good now is it. As for Hanover Street building, delightful, Cork is full of little gems like this, as much as it is full of crap. If only I can find a bit of time to get out there and take some pics, I’ll let ye in on my faves.

  • #757101

    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Shrek… or John Hinde maybe.

  • #757102

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Madness! It looks like a photo of the location including the crane in the foreground, and the background replaced with an artist’s impression!

    You’ve some very weird light down there…

  • #757103

    PTB
    Participant

    Hmmm…green light. Cue X-files music

  • #757104

    phil
    Participant

    For those of you with an interest in recent architecture in Cork City, there is an article in the latest edition of Irish Arts Review that might interest you (Winter 2006).

    @irish Arts Review wrote:

    ‘Recent Cork Architecture: Resurgence and Vision’:
    The redevelopment of Cork County Hall, together with a number of new collegiate buildings at UCC and CIT marks a period of economic vitality and renewed cultural confidence, argues Louise Cotter

  • #757105

    corkremembered
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    A fading sight in Irish urban areas – though I know a few still remain especially in Dublin. This terrace jumps on the unsuspecting stroller like a pleasant surprise along Dalton’s Avenue, off Cornmarket Street. Unfortunately, at the time of this image’s capture, Kerry Drain Services had lines of machinery and traffic cones closing off the avenue as part of investigations on drainage for Rockfell Investment’s Cornmarket Street development nearby. If you can block out the foreground and take in the street, I think you’ll agree it is rather charming. What I find most interesting is the lady in the centre of the image touching up the mosaic – community pride alive and well?

    Hi, Just to say that some of my family lived in this terrace of houses from the beginning of the 1900s, until 1987. The terrace is called Corporation Buildings (named because it was built for corporation workers I believe). The cornerstone of the building was placed in 1901. When my family lived in the Buildings, they lived on the first floor which was a 2 bedroomed flat with a cooker and sink at the top of the entrance stairs and a small toilet just past this “kitchen”. The main living room had a door off leading to the first bedroom, and then a door from that one into the second. Wonder if anyone else has any photos of the place when it was first built? I only have a few family pictures and it did not look any different in the 1960s than it does now. It was a dismal place and in the early 1980s my great aunt was on TV discussing the damp and other problems the Buildings had. Even so, our family have great memories of the place.

  • #757106

    kite
    Participant

    @corkremembered wrote:

    Hi, Just to say that some of my family lived in this terrace of houses from the beginning of the 1900s, until 1987. The terrace is called Corporation Buildings (named because it was built for corporation workers I believe). The cornerstone of the building was placed in 1901. When my family lived in the Buildings, they lived on the first floor which was a 2 bedroomed flat with a cooker and sink at the top of the entrance stairs and a small toilet just past this “kitchen”. The main living room had a door off leading to the first bedroom, and then a door from that one into the second. Wonder if anyone else has any photos of the place when it was first built? I only have a few family pictures and it did not look any different in the 1960s than it does now. It was a dismal place and in the early 1980s my great aunt was on TV discussing the damp and other problems the Buildings had. Even so, our family have great memories of the place.

    I may be mistaken but I think I recall reading in the local press that the wall to the rear of your great photo was damaged beyond repair along with serious damage to some of the houses during nearby construction.
    I think the residents were put up in city hotels for quite some time until the area was made safe.

  • #757107

    ake
    Participant

    Here is that waterford bow front, now a fancy restaurant-december 2006

    [ATTACH]3903[/ATTACH]

  • #757108

    PTB
    Participant

    Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know what the oldest building in the city is?

    Other than the city walls or anything of course.

  • #757109

    jungle
    Participant

    @ptb wrote:

    Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know what the oldest building in the city is?

    Other than the city walls or anything of course.

    I suppose it depends on your definition of building.

    The Red Abbey is usually said to be the oldest building in the city, although it doesn’t survive as a workable usable building.

    In terms of buildings that are still in use, I don’t know the answer. The oldest that springs to mind is the one that houses Cork Vision Centre, which dates from the 17th century. That would almost certainly be the oldest in the city centre as a number of floods and fires have destroyed so many buildings over time. It’s possible that there is something older in the areas around Shandon/Blarney St on the Northside and Douglas St/Barrack St on the southside (actually Elizabeth Fort is probably older).

    Going out into the suburbs and far suburbs, you have Carrigrohane Castle and Blarney Castle.

  • #757110

    Devin
    Participant

    What happened to the fine old buildings adjoining South Gate Bridge?

  • #757111

    Anonymous

    I’m looking forward to seeing that quayside cleaned up and accessable, will be a lovely area 🙂

    no idea about the missing houses…

  • #757112

    who_me
    Participant

    Whatever about the buildings, look at the state of the bridge and quay walls in those two photos. Pretty depressing.

  • #757113

    who_me
    Participant

    @devin wrote:

    What happened to the fine old buildings adjoining South Gate Bridge?

    Interesting, and is that a clock-tower peering over the top of those buildings too – part of Beamish & Crawford?

  • #757114

    Devin
    Participant

    There must some old photos of the Beamish complex, or someone on the Cork threads who knows. The photo is only from the ’60s.

    Cork didn’t have any of the insane road widening that was done in Dublin in its centre, but still when you look at the old photos, a fair bit of key fabric is gone here and there around the centre. That south end of South Main Street where it meets the bridge, as seen above, seems to have been blitzed. Shame. There’s a Irish tradition of building tight up against bridges like that.

  • #757115

    Devin
    Participant

    Mid 2005

    Mid 2007

    Sept. 2008

    I see the Parnell Place houses are finally being repaired. But should those top storeys really have been allowed to be cut down with the loss of the original fabric?

  • #757116

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Lovely sets of horns and sticky-backed glazing bars on the new windows there. I wouldn’t have expected that at all.

  • #757117

    Steady
    Participant

    Sept. 2008

    I see the Parnell Place houses are finally being repaired. But should those top storeys really have been allowed to be cut down with the loss of the original fabric?

    That project (Hotel on Beasley Street) seems to have been mothballed for now, or at least I cannot see any recent activity. I think the limestone cladding which faces south at high level looks very good from the City Hall direction.

  • #757118

    Pug
    Participant

    i assume they are doing internal fit out, it took ages to build

  • #757119

    pipedreams
    Participant

    @pug wrote:

    i assume they are doing internal fit out, it took ages to build

    There’s no work at all going on there at the moment (I work in a build right beside it!)

  • #757120

    njcork
    Participant

    @ptb wrote:

    Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know what the oldest building in the city is?

    Other than the city walls or anything of course.

    No. 20 on Kyle Street (building immediately west of the dunnes stores delivery entrance) is supposedly 17th century although you wouldnt know it with all the PVC stuffed into it. This is the opinion of the former city archaelogist and supposedly there is (was) a very early staircase within but i remember passing sometime during the summer and there was work carrying on inside. i’m betting it may no longer be there.

    The Christchurch crypt would be 15th century in date and its true, parts of the vision centre are 17th century but i would say the earliest complete building is probably skiddys almshouse (beside St. Ann’s) from 1718 followed by a number of buildings in the 1720s such as Christchurch, St. Peter and Paul’s, St. Ann’s and the former custom house (Crawford gallery)

  • #757121

    Leesider
    Participant

    I know I have brought this up before but Shandon what a disgrace that it has not been developed to anyway near its full potential.

    It should be a tourist mecca, with cobbled streets and plenty of restaurants, and it should be designated the “Old City” on the tourist trail, there is hotel right beside it, it has the tourist attractions and the charming narrow streets now all it needs is a bit of creativity and imagination!

  • #757122

    njcork
    Participant

    @njcork wrote:

    @ptb wrote:

    Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know what the oldest building in the city is?

    Other than the city walls or anything of course.

    No. 20 on Kyle Street (building immediately west of the dunnes stores delivery entrance) is supposedly 17th century although you wouldnt know it with all the PVC stuffed into it. This is the opinion of the former city archaelogist and supposedly there is (was) a very early staircase within but i remember passing sometime during the summer and there was work carrying on inside. i’m betting it may no longer be there.

    The Christchurch crypt would be 15th century in date and its true, parts of the vision centre are 17th century but i would say the earliest complete building is probably skiddys almshouse (beside St. Ann’s) from 1718 followed by a number of buildings in the 1720s such as Christchurch, St. Peter and Paul’s, St. Ann’s and the former custom house (Crawford gallery)

    Walked past this the other day, boarded up and roof removed. Couldn’t believe my eyes. The roof had very unusual gabled ends (Dutch like in appearance) and are now gone as it was reduced to eaves level in its entirety. I had seen a solitary worker inside there maybe 2 or 3 years back but I presumed he was repairing the interior, evidently not.

    Absolutely disgusted this was allowed to happen.

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