Belfast vs Dublin
- This topic has 35 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 1 month ago by Maxwiggan.
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May 28, 2001 at 9:45 am #705009GregFParticipant
Anyone from the ‘south’ particularly Dubs feel a bit shameful or embarrassed that Belfast the onetime ‘melting pot of bigotry and violence’ is surpassing Dublin the supposedly ‘party capital of Europe’ with the likes of the Waterfront Hall, Odyssey Centre etc….(and well done to them I say!)
[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 28 May 2001).]
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May 29, 2001 at 10:27 am #716167John CalleryParticipant
Yes indeed, Ireland’s two most magnificent contemporary buildings have to be Belfast’s Waterfront Hall (Belfast architects Robinson and Mc Ilwaine ) and the Odyssey Centre ( Belfast architects – Consarc ).
Architecturally Belfast is buzzing and the two above gems are only something Dublin can only wish for Celtic Tiger et al. Plenty of cash down south but so little vision / aspiration to achieve excellence from local authorities, central government and developer alike and very poor client briefs for architects to aspire to. Maybe the next cross border body should be devoted to the sharing of architectural projects of greatness and excellence and off benefit to the public.
Also worth a visit when up north is the Hilton Hotel (note the foyer and “Sonama†raised restaurant overlooking the Lagan and the tastefully designed riverside apartments). Also visit the entrance of Europe’s most bombed building the Europa Hotel and walk around the foyer that was redesigned about 8 years ago and pay a visit to the Gallery Lounge on the 2nd floor. Round of your day in the only bar in Ireland that is a listed heritage site and run by British National Trust the most unique and “snug filled†Crown bar right opposite the Europa. Also, the way Dublin pubs are being destroyed we’ll all have to go to Belfast (to find not only architectural excellence) but to enjoy a jar in a genuine Irish city boozer.
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May 29, 2001 at 11:21 am #716168MGParticipant
Just a thought:
perhaps community activism such as led by yourself at Kilmainham has resulted in Dublin’s lack of comparative buildings.
Just a thought!
[This message has been edited by MG (edited 29 May 2001).]
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May 29, 2001 at 11:38 am #716169JackParticipant
To be honest I’m surprised Ulster has anything of architectural merit left in the province, it’s had the ass blown out of it 4 ways from Sunday.
Strabane for example has been hit badly over the years. -
May 29, 2001 at 1:23 pm #716170deepnoteParticipant
Belfast also has 4,000 acres of Harland and Wolf property as a potential development zone at the heart of the city. They still have some years to go on their lease, but don’t need the land.
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May 29, 2001 at 2:12 pm #716171AnonymousInactive
Are Waterfront Hall and the Odyssey Centre really such fantastic buildings? I had them down as ok-to-good rather than great, but what do I know – years since I’ve been to Belfast, and pictures can deceive.
However I greatly like the look of the Marketplace Centre in Armagh by Glenn Howells, a seemingly excellent new modernist centre making interesting use of precast concrete etc – and in an ancient town that had also been bombed to bits. But again – I’ve not yet been there, I only know Glenn’s buildings on mainland UK. Anyone on this list know Armagh and can offer a view?
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May 29, 2001 at 2:35 pm #716172John CalleryParticipant
MG, We are very much aware of the great quality of the excellent architecture that we are so previlaged to have (on all sides) and only wish to protect it from the ordinary the banal and the “run of the mill”.
We are also very much aware of the great (architecture and function) of the contemporary Belfast developments and know that what is proposed for us is just not at the races when compared to what has stood here for centuries or what has stood in Belfast for only a few years. The site opposite the Gaol deserves the very best.
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May 29, 2001 at 2:49 pm #716173PoParticipant
With reference to deepnote’s statement in relation to dockland area, take a look at:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/finance/2000/0404/fin19.htmand I’m not sure about who has been appointed to do the masterplan but I found this
http://www.murrayolaoire.com/projects/urban%20design/titanic%20quarter/titanicquarter.htmlLevel III at QUB have been producing masterplans for the same site for the last
number of years, with one year having their work displayed at RIBA hq.Another interesting building in the future is Dixon Jones’s new Student’s Union at QUB.
Architecture in belfast is not buzzing,
still dominated by po-mo pastiche with
cornices and bollards on copings. nasty.What these ‘great’ projects have in common is that they’ve been pumped with lotto
cash. Down here people are angry when ‘public money’ is spent on capital projects, but if proceeds from the ‘stupid tax’ was spent they wouldn’t feel so aggrieved.
Whatever happens to our lotto cash?
Cayman Islands anyone?Po
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May 29, 2001 at 3:00 pm #716174JackParticipant
Very true about the lotto money, although it is significantly smaller than it’s English counterpart, you do wonder where it is? when you look at Derrys new theatre, you can see the real benifit of large scale investment on a quality project.
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May 29, 2001 at 3:21 pm #716175Paul ClerkinKeymaster
“Are Waterfront Hall and the Odyssey Centre really such fantastic buildings? I had them down as ok-to-good rather than great, but what do I know – years since I’ve been to Belfast, and pictures can deceive.”
I think theyre both average large scale developments, in Dublin we dont have the like or similar facilities so there would be a certaijn amount of envy for them as facilities, their sites, and not as buildings. The Odyssey Centre I really dont like at all.
“However I greatly like the look of the Marketplace Centre in Armagh by Glenn Howells, a seemingly excellent new modernist centre making interesting use of precast concrete etc – and in an ancient town that had also been bombed to bits. But again – I’ve not yet been there, I only know Glenn’s buildings on mainland UK. Anyone on this list know Armagh and can offer a view?”
I know Armagh, not too far from Monaghan. The old centre of Armagh has emerged relatively unscathed from the troubles except for the fact it was fairly run down due to the security barriers on the narrow streets. Lots of narrow streets with good stone houses, dominated by the CofI cathedral in the middle, around which the town lies in its shadow. The market square development addresses the town quite well, but its my opinion that urban authorities do these projects much better in N.Ireland than in the Republic.
[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 29 May 2001).]
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May 29, 2001 at 3:22 pm #716176AnonymousInactive
Just checked out the Odyssey Centre website http://www.theodyssey.co.uk
which confirms what I thought: this is just a collection of cliched urban pieces (arena, IMAX, science centre etc) lumped together and packaged in run-of-the-mill commercial architecture by a middle-of-the-road London commercial firm. £91 million, and it could be any city anywhere.True, it would be nice to have that level of spending elesewhere – preferably better spent. If Odyssey s “great”, what adjective do we choose to describe the work of Frank Gehry, Rem Koolhaas, Renzo Piano, Jorn Utzon, Michael Scott…?
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May 29, 2001 at 3:26 pm #716177AnonymousInactive
So I think that’s Odyssey downgraded from “OK to good” to “bad to average” on this long-distance and somewhat subjective survey.
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May 29, 2001 at 3:29 pm #716178Paul ClerkinKeymaster
I would agree, as I said, for most people its a case of “look what facilities they have in Belfast”, rather than “look at the lovely new buildings of real architectural merit they have in belfast”
Saying that, I think I’ll head up for a few ice hockey games next season.
And I’m going to Belfast in the next few weeks to take photographs for Archeire.com. Any new small buildings, that I shouldn’t miss? I don’t have a car, so I’m only able to travel by train and its only for the day so anything new and interesting in the city.
[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 29 May 2001).]
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May 29, 2001 at 3:38 pm #716179Paul ClerkinKeymaster
Even the Waterfront Hall is just a large cylindrical building with a magnificent site. Not as interesting to look at as the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester (forget the correct name, was in it for a conference a few years ago). Again a magnificent facility for a city and one that Dublin could do with. The NCH doesnt really compete.
Actually Hugh, the Waterfront is just an update Albert Hall.
http://www.hughpearman.com/articles2/albert.html[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 29 May 2001).]
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May 29, 2001 at 3:39 pm #716180JackParticipant
Just Belfast?
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May 29, 2001 at 3:44 pm #716181JackParticipant
mmm….. does anyone like Roche’s proposed national conference thinymebob for the docks
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May 29, 2001 at 4:00 pm #716182JackParticipant
If you find yourself in Downpatrick, check out the St.Patrick centre, I would post some pictures, but don’t know how
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May 29, 2001 at 4:08 pm #716183traceParticipant
Check out how the Waterfront’s surroundings have nosedived since it was completed. Still, it was always meant to be a commercial magnet.
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May 29, 2001 at 4:15 pm #716184Paul ClerkinKeymaster
What kind of commercial activities is it attracting?
Picture have to be on ‘net to begin with, then copy the url of the image into tags like this[img]image%20url%20here[/img]
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May 29, 2001 at 4:36 pm #716185JackParticipant
[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 29 May 2001).]
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May 29, 2001 at 4:44 pm #716186JackParticipant
Eh?……..didn’t work
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May 29, 2001 at 5:02 pm #716187PoParticipant
Visit, Mackel and Doherty’s school near the gasworks, and their schhool that got a commendation at the aai awards (any sign of the annual book)….
tatu on lisburn road, (might be bit far from city centre)
Ormeau Baths Gallery by Twenty Two over Seven
(could there be a better name for an office)By the way, Consarc are Belfast not London, and the oddessey is poor, stealing nice features/ ideas from other buildings and managing to make a hash of it….I speak only of the exterior though, i know nothing of its internal spaces.
Po
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May 29, 2001 at 5:23 pm #716188AnonymousInactive
My mistake, yes: Consarc are a Belfast outfit. The arena bit, however, was by Marshall Haines Barrow of London.
Neither in the premier league, I think.
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May 29, 2001 at 5:43 pm #716189JackParticipant
This is the ECOS- millennium environmental centre in Ballymena, Co.Antrim –
They’re not the best photoraphs, but they’re the best I can do.the bottom ones are models obviously, but you get the idea[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 29 May 2001).]
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May 29, 2001 at 5:46 pm #716190JackParticipant
Ye wouldn’t fix these ones too Paul?
Cheers -
May 30, 2001 at 10:33 am #716191John CalleryParticipant
Also check out the following anyone who traveling up to Belfast.(I’m going this weekend). Clarendon Dock and the renovated St.George’s Market near the Hilton (restored as a genuine city market, meat,fish,veg etc )unlike Dublin’s Iveagh (Francis St.) still dormant and the demolished Old Daisy that once stood near Smithfield.
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May 30, 2001 at 11:35 am #716192GregFParticipant
I suppose then it seems that the people who like to say ‘NO’ have got they’re act together regarding the rebuilding and rejuvenation of their city….while we with pots of money and mountains of self praise fumble about. Belfast the new capital of all Ireland!
[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 30 May 2001).]
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May 30, 2001 at 12:07 pm #716193JackParticipant
Greg, you wouldn’t be a crazed nationalist by any chance?
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May 30, 2001 at 12:27 pm #716194GregFParticipant
It was just a figure of speech!
Sorry….. Belfast….Capital City of Nothern Ireland.[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 30 May 2001).]
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May 30, 2001 at 12:31 pm #716195JackParticipant
just pullin’ yer leg………
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June 1, 2001 at 10:19 am #716196JackParticipant
Not to be dragging this topic on, but I was watching the news last night and saw that Belfast is getting a new £60million art gallery- lottery funded of course.
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June 1, 2001 at 10:26 am #716197MGParticipant
Don’t forget that Dublin is getting a new gallery as well – the new extension to the National Gallery by Benson & Forsyth.
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June 1, 2001 at 10:59 am #716198Architect ExtraordinareParticipant
Found this website about the national gallery project whilst surfing for something ‘completely’ different… ummmm
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January 11, 2009 at 3:51 pm #716199rob mcParticipant
Just found this thread,i thought it would be a good idea to resurrect it 7 years later and see whats changed.
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February 19, 2009 at 10:39 pm #716200GregFParticipant
@rob mc wrote:
Just found this thread,i thought it would be a good idea to resurrect it 7 years later and see whats changed.
Since I posted the first of this thread, Dublin has gained really alot in comparison to Belfast. But now we are all up to our eye with the present credit crunch.
However, Dublin today surpasses Belfast in a lot of things.
We now have 2 modern stadia in Dublin while Belfast has none, but Belfast did have an offer of one.
We’ll have the new National Conference Centre gracing the Liffey as well as the O2 Point revamp to match the Waterfront Hall.
Belfast got the new Victoria Square shopping mall, but here in Dublin we have umpteen of them with more on the way for the city centre, ie …the Arnotts and Carlton Cinema developments. However the present credit crunch may stall them.
And Dublin got a new light rail system the LUAS as well as the Port Tunnel.
A few of the completed projects……
O’Connell Street makeover ……………………………………………………………………………………………………Done
The Spire…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..Done
LUAS – (Light Rail System)……………………………………………………………………………………………………DoneCroke Park redevelopment …………………………………………………………………………………………………….Done
New wing at the National Gallery……………………………………………………………………………………………..Done
New pedestrian bridge spanning the Liffey (The Sean O Casey Bridge)……………………………………………..Done
New vehicle bridge spanning the Liffey (the James Joyce Bridge)…………………………………………………….Done
Lansdowne Road redevelopment………………………………………….Work in Progress – to be completed next year
Dublin Port Tunnel ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………Done
National Conferance Centre ……………………………………….Work in Progress…to be completed end of this year
Calatrava Bridge (aka Samuel Beckett Bridge)…………………………………………………………….Work in Progress
Dublin Airport extension…………………………………………………………………………………………Work in Progress -
March 15, 2009 at 9:39 pm #716201MaxwigganParticipant
the port tunnel?
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