Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan

St. Patrock’s church Fermoy, Co. Cork, may also be attributable to Michael Augustine O’Riordan. The church was built c. 1817 in the classical style. In the 1860/70s the classical building was internally and externally gothicized by G.E. Ashlin.

The alumni association of the Presentation Brothers has published this interesting biography of Br. O’Riordan:

Br. Michael Augustine Riordan

Michael Riordan was born in the parish of Doneraile, Co. Cork, in 1783 or 1784. It is likely that his family were well off and that he received a good elementary education at a local hedge-school. It is believed he studied architecture in Cork under the father of Sir Thomas Deane. The parish church in his native Doneraile is but one of many buildings Michael Riordan designed .
Michael was already a practising architect and builder when he joined the Society of the Presentation in the North Monastery, probably in 1814, being thenceforth known as Br. Augustine or Br. Austin.

In 1822 at a Chapter held in Mount Sion, Waterford, the Brothers of the Society of the Presentation voted to accept the Brief of Pope Pius VII amalgamating all the communities under a central authority as a Pontifical Congregation. Br. Edmund Rice, founder of the congregation, was elected Superior General and new Constitutions and a new name, the Irish Christian Brothers, were adopted. Bishop Murphy of Cork saw in the acceptance of the Brief of Pius VII a rejection of his own authority and used all his influence to persuade the Cork Brothers to resist this move. He made a particularly personal appeal to Brother Augustine to remain under his jurisdiction. Most of the Brothers in the North Monastery accepted the new Constitutions, but Br. Augustine and it is believed one other Brother whose name is not recorded, decided to continue to follow the original Presentation rule. Eventually, in 1826, they left the North Monastery and went to reside in accommodation they shared with the priests of St. Finbar’s South Parish.

On Monday 2 July 1827 Br. Augustine and his companions opened a temporary school in a disused corn store in Cat Lane, off Barrack Street, Cork. In the announcement at Masses the previous Sunday it was noted that the building was capable of accommodating 600 children. Later the school moved to a new premises, built by Br. Augustine, attached to the South Monastery, Douglas Street.

Br. Augustine continued his architectural work for several years . He was involved in drawing up plans for Catholic churches, convents and schools in the dioceses of Cork, Cloyne and Kerry. Among his buildings are the chapel and extension to the Ursuline Convent, Blackrock, Cork (1827); the school at South Monastery, Douglas Street; Saint Michael’s Church, Blackrock; churches in Dunmanway, Ovens, Bantry, Kinsale, Skibbereen, Rosmore, and Millstreet. The churches in Rosscarberry and Castletown-Kenneigh are also attributed to him. He built a school in Cobh for Bishop Coppinger. The annals of the Presentation Convent, Clonmel record how he travelled to Cork every Saturday evening, coming back to Clonmel on Monday mornings, while the convent was being built.

All this work was done by Br. Augustine in addition to his other duties as Superior of the South Monastery and superintending two schools, the South Monastery school and the Lancasterian school. It is probable that much of the actual supervision was done during school holidays and at weekends.

Little is known about Br. Augustine’s private life. He left no diaries or personal papers though there are some manuscripts of the Presentation Rule in his handwriting. But he was a man of talent and ability and evidently had great leadership qualities who drew other remarkable men, Br. Paul Townsend and Br.Francis Scannell among them, to collaborate with him .

Br. Augustine’s younger brother Charles, some 14 years his junior, entered the Brothers in 1821 and spent some time with Edmund Rice in Waterford. He was professed in 1824 and spent ten years with the Christian Brothers but then joined Br. Augustine in the South Monastery. Thus he was a significant ‘bridge’ between the two congregations. The first indication of Br. Augustine’s declining health comes in a letter written on 31 December 1846 by Charles Riordan – known in the community as Br. Bernard – to Br. Paul Townsend who was superior in Killarney. The letter mentions Br. Augustine’s ‘state of depression of spirits, the consequence of his illness…..’ and asks Br. Paul to visit the South Monastery without delay.

A year later, on 20 January 1848, Br. Augustine died. His remains lie in the Brothers’ vault in the grounds of what is now the South Presentation Convent of the Sacred Heart, formerly the South Monastery, where Br. Augustine lived from the time of his departure from the North Monastery twenty two years earlier. He is remembered as a dedicated teacher and an architect of note, but especially as the humble Brother who preserved the Presentation way of life.

Reference:
Gentlemen of the Presentation (Feheney, Veritas, 1999) Annals, South Monastery
The Presentation Brother, D.H.Allen FPM (Private publication)

Praxiteles has decided to see just how much of Micahel Augustin [O’] Riordan’s oeuvre is extant . So far the results have not been very encouraging.

St. John the Baptist, Kinsale, Co. Cork (c. 1820)

One of his most beauiful (fairly) extant pieces is the church of St. John the Baptist in Kinsale, Co. Cork. It was recently restored and one can see the quality of the advice supplied to the parish. Jack Coughlan and Co. were the conservation architects and have done an excellent job.

Notable features of the church are the glazing bars of the windows which appear to be original (and are very similar to those of the French Church in Cork City). The galleries is also unusual features and a fine monument to a former Parish priest by John Hogan.

Of real interest is the beautiful classical retable of the altar. O’Rirodan seems to specialized in a tripartite serliana retable supported by fluted corinthian columns, and incorporating (usually) three picture, the arch surmounted by a cross. Kinsale is fortunate to have this feature still intact and besutifully restored. Clearly O’Riordan was more than aware of Sebastiano Serlio’s Architettura (1537-1575) which promoted the form which may have originated with Bramante

The plaster ceiling is also quite fine and incorporates a wealth of classical details.

Unfortunately, Praxiteles does not have a photograph of the exterior of the church and would appreciate were anyone able to supply one.

Old Parish Church, Chapel Lane, Charleville, Co. Cork, (1812).

This large rectangular monocameral church in the classical style was built in 1812 and served the parish of Charleville until 1902 when replaced by the present neo-gothic parish church. Since then, it has served as a parochial hall. It has been almost completely denuded of its interior while some of its exterior has been clad in modern poorly built service wings.

Effectively, all that is left of the building is its facade which is crowned by a truly beautiful bellcote supported by ionic columns. Relatively recently, the original gating and pallasiding have been removed.

I am not sure that this building has been placed on the register of protected structures. Could anybody check thta point, please?

Ballyhea, Charleville, Co. Cork (1818)

The Church of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin

This large country church is again monocameral and in a simpler classical idiom. The church was extensively gutted during the 1970s and lost most of its interior fittings including galleries, rails and supulchral monuments – this latter seems to have been some form of damnatio memoriae. The original glass and glazing bars were removed and new windows installed.

The ceiling was lowered and, incedeibly, a false ceiling installed.

The tripartite retable, however, managed to survive with only minor damage done to it. The cross on the pinacle of the arch having been removed to accomodate the new ceiling.

The exterior has also suffered in the 1970s “restoration” and the main facade has been partially clad in the most domestic of door porches.

Doneraile, Co. Cork (1827)

Michael Augustine O’Riordan built this church in his native parish in 1827. The facade has survived along with much of the original interior fittings. Here the retable is the exception. It was replaced in the late 19th century by the PArish Priest, Stephen Ashlin, an uncle of G.C. Ashlin. Somethig of its original form has been retained in the wall mural.

In his visitation register of 1828, Bishop Michael Collins (1827-31) noted: “The old chapel will soon be abandoned, a new one 130 feet long by 49 broad having been erected, and likely to be soon fit to receive the people. It will be one of the most splendid chapels in the diocese when finished”.

The church has a vast plaster ceiling with some excellent stucco work. Originally lamps depended from the centres of the large roundels. Alas, these have been replaced with a lighting system more commonly encountered in garages.

The Pro-Cathedral of Si. Patrick, Skibbereen, Co. Cork built in 1825.

St. Michael’s Church in Blackrock was built in 1821. It was destroyed by fire prior to 1964 when the present replacement was built. Images of the old church in Blackrock appear to be difficult to find. Should anyone have one, perhaps they might like to post it.

Samuel Lewis’ Topographical Dictionary of 1837 states teh following re. old St. Michael’s in Blackrock, Cork: “The R. C. chapel, erected in 1821, is a large and handsome building, and is a chapel of ease to the parochial chapel of St. Finbarr, or the South chapel: it was begun at the private expense of the late Dean Collins, aided by a subscription of

St. Patrick’s Church, Dunmanway, Co. Cork (1831)

Lewis’ Topographical Dictionary of 1837 mentions simply that: “There is a R. C. chapel in progress of erection, at an estimated expense of £2500”.

The attachment shows the church in Dunmanway c. 1930.

St, John the Baptist, Ovens, Co. Cork (1832 or 1835)

Lewis’ Topographical Dictionary states: “the chapel, erected in 1835, is a handsome edifice of hewn limestone, in the mixed Gothic and Grecian styles of architecture”.

St. Finbarr’s, Bantry, Co. Cork (1825)

Lewis’ Topographical Dictionary of 1837 states: “on an eminence at the eastern extremity is a large R. C. chapel, erected at an expense of £2500”.

St. Joseph’s Church, Castletownkenneigh, Ennisleane, Co. Cork (1832)

St. Nicholas Church, Killavullen, Mallow, Co. Cork (1839)

Unfortunately, this church was subjected to a most terrible vandalism as recently as 10 years ago. All that remains of its classical interior are two scagliola columns now used to form a sort of procinium for the sanctuary which looks as though it has been built on a site previously behind the back wall of the church. It is oddly lit by a glass roof.

St. Patrick’s Church, Millstreet, Co. Cork

The building of Millstreet church began with a grant of landmade in 1811. The church was built over a period of twenty years. The original church was practically re-built in the 1930s. The present facade dates from that time and seems to incorporate elements from the original facade. The side wings are additions made in the rebuilding. The interior was also rebuilt and based loosly on Ashlin’s 1900 interior for St. AMry’s in Mallow.

It looks as though another outbreak of vandalism is about to happen here. Plans and drawinga by Eamon Hedderman are prominently displayed

St. Patrick’s Church, Muilstreet, Co. Cork.

I am posting some photographs of the proposed plans for the “re-ordering” of this church produced by the Holly Park Studio, Dublin.

No effort is made to justify the re-ordering and the gratituitous destruction of the altar rail and pulpit. The provision of a “meeting” area at the back will be very hard to justify in reference to any piece of eccelesiastical law -something that the present parish priest should be well aware of. The idiocyncratic arraangement of the seating is simply bizzare!

Beautiful churches…. like the simplicity and recurring themes of the exteriors

It is a great pity that so little of O’Riordan’s oeuvre has survived in anything like its original form. If you thought JJ. McCarthy has been obliterated, just look a poor M.A. O’Riordan.

Yet, I hope to dig out some more little things by him!!

The Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Ballyhea, Charleville, Co. Cork

The attached picture was taken in 1934 and well illustrates the interior decoration of the sanctuary of the church which existed right up to the vandalism of the 1970s. Notable is the absence of the cross in the tympanum of the arch over the High Altar. This probably surmounted the arch but was hacked off in order to allow the present false ceiling to be installed. It is presently, and curiously, situated in front of the chalice motive in the tympanum.

Noteworthy also is the fresco work on the lateral walls of the sanctuary which served to demarkate the sanctuary area in a plain rectangualr interior lacking architectural demarkation.

The lateral window still had its original early 19th.century glazing bars.

The entry to the sacristy (located immediatly behind the High Altar) is through two painted doors integrated into the overall decorative scheme. These have been removed.

The altar rail was in plain wrought iron. The votive altars at either side of the High Altar have been removed.

St Patrick’s Church, Fermoy, Co. Cork

This church may also belong to O’Riordan’s oeuvre. It was built in the classical style c. 1817. In 1847 it was extended and its interior and exterior was gothesized by Pugin and Ashlin in 1867.

Lewis’ Topographical Dictionary of 1837 describes this church as follows: “The chapel, a spacious and handsome edifice on an eminence, was erected by subscription, towards which the late Mr. Anderson contributed the site rent-free and £500; the altar-piece, of light tracery, is embellished with a good painting of the Crucifixion”.

An early 19th. century print showing the classical church is in existence but I have been unable to loacte it so far. In the meantime, I enclose two old photographs of the exterior and interior showing it after having been clad in a neogothic shell.

A further possibility is the Chapel of the Presentation Convent, Fermoy, Co. Cork.

The rectangular chapel was built in the first part of the 19th. century in a classical style and functioned up to the 1990s when its interior was plundered and sacked. Nothing remains of the interior.

Lewis 1837 Topographical Dictionary notes the following: “A convent for nuns of the order of the Presentation has been built in a very handsome style on the brow of a hill to the south of the town, to which it is a great ornament; it consists of a centre connected by corridors with two wings, of which one is a chapel and the other a school-house for girls; and was built at an expense of £2000, of which £1500 was obtained from funds appropriated by Miss Goold to the establishment of convents in this county, and the remainder raised by subscription”.

While awaiting a better image, I am posting this old photograph of Fermoy which shows the outline of the chapel to the right of the convent building at the top.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I am starting this thread in an attempt to catalogue as many as possible of the works of this important early 19th. century Cork architect. So, if any one can add to the list it would be greatly appreciated.

Only an ecclesiastical train spotter would want to catalogue the dreary oeuvre of this mediocre clerical draughtsman. This sad parade of nondescript buildings must have looked the poor relation when compared to the work of the Board of First Fruits of the Church of Ireland.

Bear in mind, dear Chuck, that O’Riordan’s churches were built at a time when Catholics did not have a lot of wealth, while the Church of Ireland was still the state church until disestablishment in 1870 and in receipt of considerable financial assistance! Given that, I wouldn’t be too hard on what O’Riordan managed to do with limited resources, nor on Praxiteles for wanting to catalogue what is part of our patrimony.

Here we have our Belfast friend back again. I do not think that the Board of First Fruits had need to be very operative in Northern Ireland as there were sufficiently large Protestant congregatiuons to support their own church building projects. The Board was much more operative in the South of Ireland. The Boards building projects were usually to a standard plan without great variation. The work was usually good but then, even for the smallest congregations, the Board was able to ensure a high standard church.

Catholics in Co. Cork at the end of the 18th century and at the beginning of the 19th century were fortunate enough to be able to begin a building programme while Catholicism was still a proscribed religion an d suffering serious discriminatory disibalities. The churches I have posted by O’Riordan reflect a variety of parishes with a variety of financial possibilities. The most elaborate were obviously Charleville and Doneraile where funds were available from the local Catholic gentry or the benevolant Viscounts Doneraile. I do not believe that it is very fair to judge either O’Riordan personally or professionally on the basis of the constraints under which he worked.

Hi all,

regardless of the architectural quality and whether the spectacles are rose-coloured or not, the cataloguing of O’riordan’s work is a valuable exercise in helping the Irish Catholic church be aware of its history and story. Keep it up. (There’s probably an EEC grant for it)

BQ

@Praxiteles wrote:

Catholicism was still a proscribed religion and suffering serious discriminatory disibalities.

Has anything changed?

To change the interior of a catholic church you still need the consent of people who have never been inside a catholic church.

Even if not going inside, are they baptised?

@Praxiteles wrote:

Catholics in Co. Cork at the end of the 18th century and at the beginning of the 19th century were fortunate enough to be able to begin a building programme while Catholicism was still a proscribed religion an d suffering serious discriminatory disibalities. The churches I have posted by O’Riordan reflect a variety of parishes with a variety of financial possibilities. The most elaborate were obviously Charleville and Doneraile where funds were available from the local Catholic gentry or the benevolant Viscounts Doneraile. I do not believe that it is very fair to judge either O’Riordan personally or professionally on the basis of the constraints under which he worked.

So as to avoid confusion, I am posting the quote from a previous notice of mine in its full context!

@brianq wrote:

Hi all,

regardless of the architectural quality and whether the spectacles are rose-coloured or not, the cataloguing of O’riordan’s work is a valuable exercise in helping the Irish Catholic church be aware of its history and story. Keep it up. (There’s probably an EEC grant for it)

BQ

Brian, old chap, I’m disappointed to see you throwing in the towel and fraternising with the Italian Masons.

While you’re finished cataloguing the Barns of Gussie Riordan why don’t you have a go at
The Bungalows of Jack Fitzsimons
The Dance Halls of Albert Reynolds
The Meat Factories of Larry Good Man

Let’s face it, they have all made a major contribution to the architectural history of the Taigues

But, who are all these architects?

Ah! Finally, I have come across an old photograph of the Queen’s Sqare in Fermoy, Co. Cork.

At the top, is the complex of the Presentation Convent. The schools are to the right of the main building, the chapel to the left. These were built about 1835 an O’Riordan may well have been the architect.

@Chuck E R Law wrote:

Brian, old chap, I’m disappointed to see you throwing in the towel and fraternising with the Italian Masons.

While you’re finished cataloguing the Barns of Gussie Riordan why don’t you have a go at
The Bungalows of Jack Fitzsimons
The Dance Halls of Albert Reynolds
The Meat Factories of Larry Good Man

Let’s face it, they have all made a major contribution to the architectural history of the Taigues

🙂

We should probably just stick to sacred ground to start with ….. but wait ……

BQ

@brianq wrote:

🙂

We should probably just stick to sacred ground to start with ….. but wait ……

BQ

We are waiting……………..

The interior of the chapel of the Ursuline Nuns, Blackrock, Co. Cork, built to plans drawn by Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan.

It appears that the convent has been sold. I expect that the chapel and its fittings was a protected structure. I do not know what has happened to it – hopefu

The Church of St. Finbar and the Holy Angels, Inchigeela, Co. Cork (1842)

St. Mary’s Church, Leap, Co. Cork (1848)

Rosscarbery, Co. Cork (1820)

St. Columba’s Church, Douglas, Cork (1814)

@brianq wrote:

Hi all,

regardless of the architectural quality and whether the spectacles are rose-coloured or not, the cataloguing of O’riordan’s work is a valuable exercise in helping the Irish Catholic church be aware of its history and story. Keep it up. (There’s probably an EEC grant for it)

BQ

Congratulations to Praxiteles on a valiant endeavour to catalogue an important part of Ireland’s architectural patrimony!

Keep an open mind, Chuckles. You may learn something yet.

I hope that EEC grant is forthcoming. This is worthy research. Bravo, Praxiteles!

Church of St. James, Ballinora, Waterfall, Co. Cork (1831)

A further possibility that needs a little research is the church of St. Joseph, Springhill, Glanmire, Co. Cork (1837)

Another possibility is St. Moluada’s church, Timoleague, Co. Cork (1821)

While retaining a classical nave, it would seem that a gothic chancel was added at some stage in the 19th. century.

@Praxiteles wrote:

With the gothicization of Fermoy church by Pugin and Ashlin in 1967 the classical High Alatar of 1818 was removed and re-erected in the parish church of Lisgoold where it remained untl fairly recent times. WHiile descriptions tell us that the central portion of the Altar had a painting of the Criucifixion flamked by pictures of Our Lady and St. John the Baptist, already by 1951, the picture of Our Lady (a copy of Raphael’s Sixtine Madonna) seems to have replaced the crucifixion xcene and that of St. John the Baptist seems to have disappeared completely. Note that the medallions pained in the side recesses of the altar retable are similar, if not identical, to those in the chapel of the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock. Unfortunately, the whole structure was dismantled in the 1980s and has vanished.

Yes, the medallions are the same as those in the Ursuline Convent, Blackrock. Those reproduced in these photos have retained the beautiful stencilling around them, whereas someone took to whitewashing the surrounding stencilwork at the Ursuline Convent.

May I ask why the Fermoy church was destroyed? Is there no functional society or board in Ireland which protects buildings of historical, cultural, or religious value which are in danger of demolition?

One of the classical sources for Br. O’Riordan’s serliana latar-pieces is the Temple of Hadrian at Ephesus which was built c. 130 A.D.

Praxiteles has no doubt whatsosever that Brother Micahel Agustine O’Riordan was thoroughly farmiliar with Sebastiano Serlio (1475-1554) and his Tutte le Opere di Architettura e Prospettiva. A sample of the plates will indicate why Serlio is regarded as the one who revived the serliana form during the renaissance -even to the extent of its now being called after him:

Furthermore, Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan was also aware of a developpment made by Antonio Palladio to the the serliana form: Palladio gave depth to the central partition by raising the arch on two pairs os columns instead of the antique practice of raising it on two single columns. This can be seen in his High Altars at Ballyhea, Kinsale, and in the chapel of the Ursuline nuns in Blackrock.

Palladio’s invention is clearly articulated in the loggie of the Palazzo della Ragione (1546-1549)in Vicenza:

Praxiteles thinks that it is not to be excluded that Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan was aware of the work of the Scottich Catholic architect James Gibbs, who had studied under Carlo Fontana in Rome, and his introduction of the serliana form into a liturgical context in his church of St- Martin’s in the Field (1726-1729) in London:

@Chuck E R Law wrote:

Only an ecclesiastical train spotter would want to catalogue the dreary oeuvre of this mediocre clerical draughtsman. This sad parade of nondescript buildings must have looked the poor relation when compared to the work of the Board of First Fruits of the Church of Ireland.

Praxiteles is inclined to the view that this appraisal of Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan’s work is poco istruito e meno fidabile!

On a detail:

Below is picture of the bellcote on the old parish church (1812) in Chrleville, Co. Cork. Here we have the reversal of columna and pilasters and the contraction of Serlio’s venetian window, the whole capped with an urn taken directly from him:

Also, an extract from Sebastiano Serlio’s Tutte le Opere di Architecttura e di Prospettiva:

I shall also post a drawing of an urn from the same work:

And James Gibbs plan for the Octagon Room at Orl

The attached link shows an interesting view of teh serliana window in St. Martin’s in the Fields in London. I am not sure that it is a good idea to replace the plain glass with coloured or exotic creations:

http://www2.stmartin-in-the-fields.org/page/building/building.html

@Praxiteles wrote:

One of the classical sources for Br. O’Riordan’s serliana latar-pieces is the Temple of Hadrian at Ephesus which was built c. 130 A.D.

http://www.wga.hu/art/m/michelan/3sistina/4lunette.jpg

A very nice revivalist example. Thanks for that Rhabanus.

And here is another example of James Gibbs’ use fo the serliana on the facade of St Mary le Strand in London, over a porch taken directly from Santa Maria della Pace in Rome:

Another church in the diocese of Cloyne that may have has an association with Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan is St. Mary’s in Mallow, Co. Cork. The origins of the church can be dated immediately to late 18th. early 19th. century – it is not built on the king’s highway (whihc would have been unlawful), but on a site immediately behind the site abutting the highway. The same soluiton was frequently used in Co. Cork to evade this piece of anti-Catholic legislation.

The original church appears to have been classical in idiom and conserves at least one serliana window from that period. A new facade was built by Ashlin in 1900. The interior pillars, though, are clearly those inspired by the Italian ceo-classical tradition: note that the ceiling does not rise from the pillar itself but from the superimposed frieze – a feature used by James Gibbs in St. Martin’s in the Fields.

The original altar in St. Mary’s is, unfortunately, lost and its 19th. certury ,marble replacement has been duly atomized with bits and pieces strewn about the church. The pillars flanking what is now the tabernacle, may have been part of a serliana arrangement replaced in the later 19th century. The usual picture of the Crucifixion taht would have been over the original altar survived until very recent times when it was replaced by an electrified stained-galss “creation” -wholly out of keeping with the surviving elegance of the church.

The external picture shows George Ashlin’s lombard neo-romanesque facade of 1900.

Here is another picture of the St. Patrick’s Church, Millstreest, Co. Cork whose architect is regrarded to have been Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan.

The church underwent heavy rebuilding and re-modelling during the 1930s but the architect involved did succeed in conserving something of the neo-classical ethos of the original church.

There was probably likely to have been a serliana altar piece here which is partially conserved in the rebuilding, with a large window opened in the sanctuary wall. A new High Altar was installed at this point.

While the ceiling rises directly from the corinthian columns, it is difficult to say say if this reproduces the original arrangement.

Unfortunately, the church is about to be gutted to plands drawn up and exhibited in it by Eamonn Hedderman of Blackrock, Co. Dublin – another member of the Art and Architecture Commission of the Irish Episcopal Conference.

Notably, the guff displayed in the church by Mr Hedderman claims that the architect of the building is unknown and seem unaware of any connection with Brothetr Michael Augustine O’Riordan. The same guff claims that the columned arcades in the church were inserted in th 1930s and are based on St. Mary’s in Mallow. This left Praxiteles with the feeling that Mr Heddreman knows little or nothing about a series of early 19th century churches scattered throughout certain parts of county Cork. Mr Hedderman’s failure to mention Br. O’Riordan takes no account of anything having been done positively and definitively to excluded the possibility that both churches were connected with the same original architect: Brother O’Riordan. Indeed, the entire “restoration” scheme in Millstreet seems to stand on very flimsy historical research and the usual mendacious approach to the implementation of the liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

Perhaps someone out there might like to apprise the Cork County heritage officer of this little matters so that something of Cork’s vernacular neo-classical churches might survive into the future.

Unless confronted with hard facts, it is practically impossible to believe that stupidity such as Mr Hedderman’s exists that could produce the kind of proposals for the gutting of this fine church. Note the introduction of the silly things at the west end: gathering area, etc (all copied without the slightest hint of imagination from the American Bishop’ Conference equivalent to The Place of WOrship); note the total destruction of the sanctuary and its “invastion” by unnecessay seating; note the unnecessary detruction of the latar rails (indeed the guru Paddy Jones admittedd at the Midleton hearing that there is no liturgical requirement for the removal of altar rails); note the disappearance of the pulpit. The lsit could go on. BUt what is the Cork county heritage officer going to do with this?

And here is more of Mr. Eamonn Hedderman’s guff:

@Praxiteles wrote:

And here is more of Mr. Eamonn Hedderman’s guff:

More philistinism! Is there something peculiar in the water around Cork? Why the great impulse to wreck beautiful churches?

Are there no academies or universities where architects can be educated (episteme, as opposed to ‘training’ in the technical, non-academic sense). And who is the grand patron of THIS wreckovation project?

Is this really a local competition for the infamous Darwin award?

By way of contrast, here is a picture of the High Altar of St. Francis Xavier’s in Gardnier St. Dublin indicating another approach to the neo-classical revival. It was designed by, and built in Rome for, Fr. Bartholomew Esmonde, sj, and incorporates a large number of antique marbles taken from the Domus Aurea of Nero and from marble salvaged from the burning of the Basilica of St. Paul’s Outside the Walls. It was shipped to Dublin in 1842.

An interesting piece of background to Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan’s work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladian_architecture

This is image of St. Paul’s (Anglican) church in Paul’s Street in Cork. The glazing bars of the wndows are of type similar to those used in Kinsale

Since documentary evidence linking Brother O’Riordan with any specific building attributed to him is so scarce, I am attaching the following link which gives the inscription cut on a brass plate inserted into the foundation stone of the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock, Cork, which clearly identifies him as its architect:

The Mausoleum of Ferdinand II in Graz (1614) by Pieto de Pomis:

@Praxiteles wrote:

Since documentary evidence linking Brother O’Riordan with any specific building attributed to him is so scarce, I am attaching the following link which gives the inscription cut on a brass plate inserted into the foundation stone of the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock, Cork, which clearly identifies him as its architect:

In a better age, it would have been considered a disgrace for a bishop to fail to hand on to his successor what he himself had received from his predecessor. In fact, the aim was at the very least to retain and to develop what he himself had received at the time of his elevation to the see.

Lo! How the mighty have fallen. In penal times and in eras when the Church struggled financially, Catholics rose to the occasion and built up the Body of Christ with vigour and elan.

Pity the dark age in which the Celtic Tiger roars mightily, but neglects the very soul of Erin. And bishops close churches and seminaries, whilst wreckovating their patrimony, leaving it to wiser and better-educated successors to reverse their irresponsible exploits in liturgical art and architecture.

“‘Tis an ill bird that befouls its own nest!”

Rhabane!

Ubi dolor, ibi digitus. Te ulcum tangesse puto!

I am posting what would seem to be the only printed biographical material on Brother Micahel Augustine O’Riordan. It was published in Brother Matthew Feheney’s Gentlemen of the Presentation, Veritas, 1999.

Here are some further pictures of St. Patrick’s Church, Dunmanway Co. Cork (1834)

Most fortunately, the serliana is still in place and has three altars -although these are probably not the original ones. The altar pictures are gone as are the altar rails. The mural behind the High Altar is out of place.

Dunmanway Church, Co. Cork

Two further views of the church showing the transepts and th west end.

The similarities between this church and the that of St. John the Baptist in Kinsale are quite striking and, fortunately, both are well preserved.

The Church of St. Finbarr and the Holy Angels, Inchigeela, Co. Cork (1842)

The church has lost its serliana and two of its pictures. It still retains all three altars but these may not be the originals. It still retains a fine central crucifixion which is a copy of a prototype by Guido Reni over which bands proclaim the trishagion, curiously for this art of the world, in demotic English rather than Irish, in substitution for the Latin inscription that probably once adorned the pediment of the serliana.

The interior has had a series of arches inserted into it which completely obscure the effect of its monocameral construction. A similar treatment was afforded in the 1940s to St. Finbarr’s in Bantry.

Inchigeela, like Ballintaotis, near Midleton, and Leap, is still a classical structure but it has incorporated gothic pointing to the windows.

The Church of St. Colman, Ballintotas, near Midleton, Co. Cork

There is little doubt that this little country church has to be reckoned as part of Br. O’Riordan’s oeuvre.

Basically, a classical structure with gothic pointed windows. The porch, which is modern, conceals a very un-gothic door lintal.

The overall structure is similar to Inchigeela. The plaster ceiling reminds one of the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock and of Doneraile.

While the serilana survives, its pictures are gone as are all of its altars. A tabernacle was inserted in the back wall probably in the 1970/1980s coupled with a rather injudicious use of connemara marble. The altar rails are gone.

The church has an exquisite organ.

That such a little gem should be found here may not be unconnected with Bishop William Coppinger of Cloyne and Ross who had strong family connections with Midelton. It is known that Br. O’Riordan built schools for Bishop Coppinger in Cobh.

The Church of St. Joseph, Castletown-Kenneigh (1832)

The serliana is gone as are the altar rails. Only the crucifixion remains of the original pictures. This is a composition based on one by P.P. Rubens. Only one latar remains and this is a later one. The votive statues that would have been on two side altars are now on plinths.

A classical building with gothic lateral windows. The window over the entrance is rounded.

St. Mary’s Church, Leap, Co. Cork (1848)

Basically a classical monocameral structure with gothic windows. The western elevation has undergone alterations and had a porch added.

The interior contains nothing of its original sancturay: the present arrangement was installed in the 1950/1960s.

The telltale sign of the previous arrangement which probably had a central High Altar and two flanking votive altars is to be seen in the prominent sacristy door which would originally have been concealed by one of the votive altars.

The church does not have a ceiling. As far as Br. O’Riordan’s oeuvre is concerend, the church is late but his influence is to be seen in its design and ornementation.

Unfortunately, the church grounds have been totally destroyed by the an ugly, unseemly,a nd partly delapidated car-park which gives the church something of the appearance of shed at the far end of a railway yard. Not what you would expect to find in a pictoresque West Cork village. Something should be done about it.

The Church of St. Barrahane, Castlehaven, Co. Cork (1840)

This is a truly interesting little country church with much of its original fittings intact. Noteworthy are the windows which appear to be original and contain much of their original glass.

The church is monocameral with classically rounded windows. It does not appear to have had a ceiling. In many respects, it resembles Ballyhea and to a lesser extent Castletown-Kinneagh.

Remarkably, it sill has its external altar rail, though it has lost its internal altar rail. In a picture of the Ballyhea taken in 1934 in an earlier posting, this feature can also be seen.

The door frames at either side of the altar appear to be original or may have been brought from Skibbereen Cathedral.

The High Altar is the original altar from St. Patrick’s Pro-Cathedral in Skibbereen as are all three pictures hanging on the wall behind the altar. It is possible that the church also had the two votive altars from Skibbereen – the present Volksaltar may indeed have been one of them.

The central picture is a crucifixion painted, I think, by the Cork painter Forde and clearly reflects the work of P.P. Rubens. On the right is St. Patrick -a clear indication of its original provenance – although the church is dedicated to St. Barrahane. On the left is a peculiar version of the Immaculata (possibly also by Forde) whose painter knew something of the canons laid down for the school of Seville by Francesco Pacheo’s Arte de la Pintura which are consistently ignored in the picture.

It is dificult to say whether the church ever had a serliana. Certainly, that which was originally in Skibbereen did not make it out to Castlehaven when the furniture of the original sancturay was dismantled by G.C. Ashlin. Most suspiciously four very fine corinthian colums support a porch before the front-door of one of the houses in the terrace opposite the Pro-Cathedral in Skibbereen and could very well have come from the serliana in the cathedral.

As at Leap, Castlehaven church is badly blighted by an ill-considered car-park that has reduced its cartelage to a wilderness. Plans are posted in the church porch re. planning permission to landscape the present frontage. Praxiteles doubts, however, that planting two yew trees outside the main door will solve the problem of an intrusive car-park.

Praxiteles also finds its lirurgically curious, indeed, eccentric, to re-install the original baptismal font in “an outdoor gazabo”, which, we are told, will afford photo-opportunities for wedings. All this smacks just a little too much of the unsightliness of commercialism copulating with bad taste. Praxiteles also fears that the present incumbent is unaware of the origin of the word “gazabo” and of its muslim connotations.

The Church of St. Barrahane, Castlehaven, Co. Cork

The sanctuary in this church is distinguished from the nave not by architectural features but by decorative elements, notably, the paint scheme in the sanctuary and by the glazing of the sanctuary windows.

At the back, there are two very finely crafted confessionals in the classical idiom -almost certainly from the Pro-Cathedral in Skibbereen.

It is to be hoped that someone in the Cork County Council heritage department – which is certainly not distinguished for its Wissenshaft – will realize the importance of this country church and ensure that it will not be subjected to depradation or liturgical nonsense. Perhaps we should employ the Skibbereen Eagle to turn its haughty gaze for while on the County Hall.

One simple method of dignifying an interior at the minimal of cost is to remove undifferentiated fitted carpets that cover entire sanctuaries and often congregational spaces too.

Fitted carpets, when used in this way, I think, are intended to cancel out distinctions of function and degrees of sanctity. It has the same effect as where the altar is on the same level as the sanctuary sans footpace.

Introducing a fine loose carpet to dignify the altar itself might be a means to point to the idea of the orientation of worship and the pre-eminent dignity of the altar.

The Church of St. Joseph, Fornaught, near Donoughmore, Co. Cork

This church preserves the remains of a serliana altar that clearly came from a much bigger church. The serliana in Fornaught has been scaled down to fit the church and none of the architrave was rebuilt here. Investigations have, so far, failed to located the church in which this feature was originally erected.

As an example of a near contemporary use of a serliana altar retable and symetricl doors to a retro sacristy here are some examples from the Franciscan Missions in California founded between 1776-1823:

Nuestra Segnora de la Soledad
San José (reconstructed)
San Luis Re de Francia
Santa Clara de Asis

Would anyone have a photograph of the interior of St. Colman’s Church, Cloyne, Co. Cork?

Church of the Exaltation of the Hoy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork built in 1812.

By a source of great good fortune a friend of Praxiteles managed to unearth and pass on the enclosed photograph of the interior of the church of the Holy Cross in Charleville probably buily by Br. O’Riordan in 1812, which served as parish church until the construction of the present neo-gothic church which was opened in 1902. The first church is now used as a parochial hall but Praxiteles is informed that the central arch of the serliana -and possibly its pediment – survives in situ. This example of a serliana altar closely resembles the one in nearby Ballyhea. Again, we have the centrally located High Altar flanked by two votive altars located slightly forward to allow access to th sanctuary from behind their rerdos. The painting over the High Altar is almost certainly a crucifixion as no crucifix has been placed on the gradine of the altar between the candle sticks. It is not possible to say whether the ensemble originally had two other pictures hanging above the votive altars.

As a matter of curiosity, it is interesting to note the double altar rail (which was also a feature in Ballyhea and still exists in Castlehaven). Note the small number of proper benches between the two rails – which would have been rented. The nave of the church, however, is furnished merely with forums equipped with kneelers – which is the origin for the expression of “being in the halfpenny place” for such would have been the contribution for their use.

@Praxiteles wrote:

The Church of St. Joseph, Fornaught, near Donoughmore, Co. Cork

This church preserves the remains of a serliana altar that clearly came from a much bigger church. The serliana in Fornaught has been scaled down to fit the church and none of the architrave was rebuilt here. Investigations have, so far, failed to located the church in which this feature was originally erected.

The tatty banners ought to be removed from the lecterns in St Joseph, Fornaught. It strikes me as a peculiarly Protestant and Protestantizing characteristic to display words, words, words, and more words. It suggests an appalling ignorance of iconography and likewise betrays a distinct lack of taste as well as of imagination.

Pity the clergy of Ireland lack proper instruction in sacred art and architecture. ACCOUNTABILITY????

Agreed!

Some notes on theChurch of the Nativity of Our Lady, Doneraile, Co. Cork

http://homepages.iol.ie/~nodonnel/rcchurch.htm

Did you know St. John the Bapstists in Kinsale was re-ordered in 2004

I am not sure about being re-ordered. Restoration work was certainly carried out on it and Jack Coughlan and Co of Cork were the conservation architects. There is a misplaced baptismal font in the left hand transept – which, if memory serves me correctly, bears no Christian symbol of any kind.

It would be highly interesting were it possible to get a photograph ofthe interior before had been interfered with.

Thanks to Alan we have some more excellent shots of St. John the Baptist’s Church, Kinsale, Co. Cork

An of the interior of St. John the Baptist’s, Kinsale, Co. Cork, courtesy of Alan.

And some shots of the pinnacle fo the facade courtsy of Alan.

The facade of the Basilica of San Lorenzo de El Escorial by Juan de Herrera (1530-1593)

San Andres Comesana, near Vigo in Galicia, Northern Spain.

St. Martin of Tours, Madrid

The Chapel of the Incarnation in Malaga Cathedral

Church of San Pedro Sardoma, Vigo, Galicia, Northern Spain,

Church of Santa Maria, Vigo, Galicia in Northern Spain

Juan de Herrera:

Francsco Goya y Lucientes’ portrait of Don Juan de Villanueva (1739-1811)

Juan de Villanueva’s project for the Astronomical Observatory in Madrid

Convent of the Descalzas Reales de Madrid

Church of San Gines in Madrid

The High Altar of the Abbey Church at Grimbergen in the Spanish Netherlands, built in 1660.

The Chapel Royal of St. Joseph at Waterloo in Belgium built by Charles III of Spain in 1690 during the governership of Francois Antoine Agurto, Marquis of Castagna

The St. Hubertus Altar, in St,. Adrian’s, Adegem, in the Spanish Netherlands.

The Church of St. John the Baptist in Mechelen

The sanctuary of the Abbey Church of Averbode in the Spanish Netherlands showing two lateral latars at the Rood Screen

Lateral Altars at the rood screen of St. James’s in Antwerp

St. Nicholas’ in Raeren in the SPnish Netherlands

Courtesy of EOD, we are able to post these shots of the St. Colman’s Church, Cloyne, Co. Cork

Courtesy of EOD, some further shots of St. Colman’s Church, Cloyne, Co. Cork

The principal facade of this church has been severely and idiocyncratically altered but, as the lateral elevation shows, it was originally built in a classical idiom.

It interior has the great advantage of conserving what apper to be the two original side altars. The main altar does not appear to have durvived and I am not certain the added piece pneumatological iconography is original – it may have come from the ceiling of a pulpit sound-board,

Would I be correct in saying that the external work and iffy slate cladding was done under the watchful
guidance of the bold Bishop…..

@samuel j wrote:

Would I be correct in saying that the external work and iffy slate cladding was done under the watchful
guidance of the bold Bishop…..

Yes, but the more immediately responsible would be a brace of PPs of very dubious aesthetics!

The Crucifixion in St. Colman’s Church, Cloyne, Co. Cork clearly derives from 17th. century painting tradiion of the school of Seville in Spain and directly from the canons laid down by Francisco Pacheo in his Arte de la Pintura and enforced by the Inquisition of Seville. According to Pacheo, the best sources suggest that Our Lord was crucified with four nails rather than three. Hence, throughout the 17th. century painters such as Valazquez, Murillo and Zurbaran all distinctively depicted Christ’s feet nailed separately to the Cross – as in the picture in Cloyne church.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Yes, but the more immediately responsible would be a brace of PPs of very dubious aesthetics!

VERY dubious ….

It is interesting to compare and contrast the altar arrangement in Kinsale with in Cloyne. Clearly, the Cloyne Altar arrangement is wider than that in Kinsale and incorporates the sacristy doors into the serliana while leaving both side altars outside of the serliana and flanking it. In both cases, however, the bediments of the side altars are practically identical. In the case of Kinsale pictures were hung above the side altars (which have disappeared) while in Cloyne arched recesses have been supplied for statues above both side altars. Again, both side altars have been fitted with tabernacles in a classical idiom closely resembling that in the church of St. Barrahane in Castlehaven, Co. Cork, which was originally located in the Pro-Cathedral of St. Patrick in Skibbereen, built in 1826. Most fortunately, the side altars in Cloyne surnd the appear to be original, in wcse they are the only remaining pair still in situ. In Kinsale, the sacristy door is not the sanctuary but in the left transcept.

The Kinsale Cruscifixion picture is clearly of Italianate inspiration, probably of the Roman/Bolognese school of Guido Reni, as is the altar piece in the chapel of the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock, Co. Cork..

These are the central Altar Pictures in:

1. The Ursuline Convent Chapel in Blackrock, Co. Cork, which is clearly based on Guido Reni’s picture in San Lorenzo in Lucina in Rome;

2. St. Colman’s Church, Cloyne, Co. Cork, which is clearly based on the school of Seville and the canons of Francisco Pacheo;

3. St. Finnbarr’s and All Angels in Inchigeela, Co. Cork, which is another version of Guido Reni’s San Lorenzo in Lucina’s altar piece;

4. St. Patrick’s, Castletown Kinneagh, near Enniskeane, Co. Cork, which is clearly based on a crucifixion by Peter Paul Rubens.

5. St. Barrahane’s, Castlehaven, Co. Cork whose crucifixion is by the early 19th. century Cork painter, Forde, which, together with its accompanying pictures, formed the original altar arrangement of the Pro-Cathedral of St. Patrick in Skibbereen (1826).

6. The central Altar in Bantry still has a crucifixion that seems to eb another version fo Guido Reni’s San Lorenzo in Lucina.

Below are examples of Guido Reni (Galleria Estense in Modena); Francisco Zurbaran (Chicago) and Peter Paul Rubens in the Alte Pinakoteka in Munich.

For more cf. http://www.crosscrucifix.com/solitaryF.htm

Two views of St. Lorenzo in Lucina, Rome, showing the High Altar with Guido Reni’s Crucifixion of c.1650 which is distinguished from his version in the Galleria Estense in Modena by the blue colour of perisoma (the Estense perisoma is white) which is clearly visible in the copy in the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock, Co. Cork and in Inchigeela.

Thanks to ET, Praxiteles is able to post te following pictures of Guido Reni’s picture of the crucifixion in San Lorenzo in Lucina. The picture was painted between 1639-1642 for the Marchesa Cristina Duglioli Angelelli who bequethed it to San Lorenzo. (The Marchesa is buried in front of the High Altar). As Reni died on 18 August 1642, this picture must be counted among his very last works. A copy attributed to him is in the Szepmuveszeti Museum in Budapest

Theologically, the picture is significant in that the wide outstretched arms denote the universal salvific effect of Christ’s death on the Cross as opposed to the more vertical arms common in paintings in Flanders, e.g. by Rubens and Van Dyck, which were influenced by contemporary Jansenism with its near Calvinist emphasis on the salvation of the elect :

Here are images of the Flemish, jansenist inspired crucifixions, painted by Rubens (the first two) prior to 1620 and the third by Van Dyck in St. James in Antwerp.

St. Patrick’s Pro-Cathedral Church, Skibbereen, Co. Cork

The interior view shows the sanctuary as rebuilt by G. C. Ashlin. It has been altered recently.

A drawing outlining a reconstruction of Andrea Palladio’s High Altar for the Ospedale di Santa Maria dei Derelitti ai Santi Giovanni e Paolo (The Ospedaletto) in Venice, built 1574-1580. In 1575 Palladio was commissioned by Giovanni Battista di Pietro Contarini (1538-1599) to prepare plans for the construction of the High Altar in the new chapel of this orphanage. The altar was dismanteled, however, in subsequent reconstructions of the chapel most notably by Baldasare Longhena in the third quarter of the seventeenth century.

The original central altar piece depicted the Coronation of Our Lady and was painted Damiano Mazza, a pupil of Titian’s. The picture still remains in situ but has been cut down to fit the subsequent dismanteling of the altar. It was also flanked by two other pictures: St. John receiving Our Lady into his own house on the epistle side and a Holy Family which are still in the chapel. The HIgh Altar is flanked by two doors leading to a sacristy behind the altar.

This liturgical arrangement was regarded as innovative in 1575 and was closely linked to the reforms of the Council of Trent when had concluded in 1562 and with the Somaschi, founded by St. Jerome Emiliano, for the care and education of the poor through hospitals and orphenages.

Praxiteles thinks that we can posit the High Altar designed by Andrea Palladio as the fundamental prototype for the altars to be found in Brother O’Riordan’s early 19th. century churches.

The Quattro Libri of Andrea Palladio:

http://www.sentieridelbarocco.it/BAROCCO/palladio/homePALLADIO.htm

Think this is the building in question Prax 🙂

The derelict one here we think is the building Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan built for Bishop Coppinger. Was derelict for a while, and was demolished recently to make way for a community centre.

Thanks Chris!

This photograph solves a problem of finding an image of the school built for Bishop Coppinger in Cobh by Br. O’Riordan. Clearly, its demolition must be rated as another notch for the the knowledgeable persons running Cobh Urban District Council. I do not suppose that anyone made a study of the building before it was razed! Having done so would have enabled us to identified other works of O’Riordan.

P.J Byrne’s church at Hilltown Co Down – sorry for the marginal picture quality..

[ATTACH]3940[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]3941[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]3942[/ATTACH]

St. Mary’s, Glynde, Sussex (1753-1756) by Sir Thomas Robinson (1702 – 1777) govrnor of Barbados and amateur architect in the Palladian manner.

Some more on Thomas Robinson, father of ichard Robinson, Anglican Archbishop of Armagh and 1st Baron Rokeby of Rokeby Hall, Co. Louth.

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~londonaye/robinson_thomas.htm

On Samuel Forde’s Altar piece for the Cathedral of Skibbereen, presently in St. Barrahane’s in Castlehaven:

“In November 1827, Samuel Forde painted an important triptych altarpiece, The Crucifixion, for a church in Skibbereen. [W. G. Strickland, Vol. I, p. 374] Forde’s biographer recounts the circumstances whereby a noted Cork painter of rather indifferent miniatures, ‘Mr. B-‘, who enjoyed the patronage of the local Catholic clergy, was called upon to decorate a new chapel in Skibbereen. “He who very indifferently covered a few inches of ivory with stippling, was required to cover ten feet of canvas.” [Anon: “Memoir of Samuel Forde”, DUM, Vol. XXV, March 1845, p. 353] Forde asked to carry out the commission. (This altarpiece in now in Castlehaven church, an elegant classical edifice of this period.) [The altarpiece was cleaned and restored in the early 1970’s, at the instigation of Davis and Mary Coakley”.

For comparative purposes, here is a photograph of the Tabernacle originally in the Skibbereen and now in Castlehaven; and a photograph of the Tabernacle on High Altar of the Church of Sts Michael and Cajetan in Florence, consecrated in 1649.

The ground-plan for the church of Sts Michael and Cajetan in Florence (1604-1701) built by Buontalenti, Nigetti and Gherardo Silvani.

The plan clearly indicates the High Altar flanked by two lateral altars, a scheme practically universal in Br. O’Riordan’s churches.

This thread should demonstrate just how little of Brother 0’Riordan’s opus survives extensive and all as it was. Surely, the time has come to ensure that what has survived will be secured for the future.

The latest vandalism comes from Bantry where there is a plan to eradicate even the last vestiges of Brother O’Riordan’s work. This will include erasing the altar rails and removing the large crucifixion picture that was a characteristic feature of every church built by Brother O’Riordan. It is unthinkable that vandalistic mind-set is still in action.

Here we are!

Praxiteles has been sent a brief schedule of the works for the “conservation” and alteration to St. Finbarr’s Church, Bantry, Co. Cork and it makes for none too reassuring reading.

Unfortunately, it appears that the person who put this piece together is not exactly expert on Brother O’Riordan’s opus even in its vestigial. It is quite astounding that the author of this document should describe Brother O’Riordan’s church in Bantry as being “designed in the neo-classical style”. A little research would have made it clear to the author that a neo-clasically designed church in 1826 would have meant a church in a neo-grecian style -such as the Pro-Cathedral in Dublin or St. Andrew’s in Westland Row, or St. Francis Xavier in Gradnier Street.

Unfortunately, the author of the learned piece under discussion does not seem to know that the 18th century neo-classical movement underwent a profound change as a result of the excavations at Herculaneum encountered by Robert Adam and others after 1758. The result of that evolution was the so-called grecian style.

Brother O’Riordan’s work is more accurately describe as neo-palladian. When he built his series of churches throughout Co. Cork in the first half ot the 19th. century his style was already somewhat “old fashioned” and had more in common with the churches build a hundred earlier by James Gibbs in England during the reign of Queen Anne.

It has also been amply illustrated in this thread that Br. O’Riordan’s design details derive from Andrea Palladio and Sebastiano Serlio, and perhaps also from Juan de Herrera and Juan de Villanueva. There is nothing of Robert Adam in his designs.

Praxitelex would also draw attention to the proposal to rempve the picture of the Crucifixion from its focal position above the main Altar. This would be the ultmate act of vandalism in this church. This thread has clearly shown that such crucifixion pictures (usually copies of the 17th. century masters Reni, Rubens or Van Dyck) are central to a complex arrangement of the sanctuary involving a central High Altar flanked by two side altars and access to a retro-sacristy. If the present picture in Bantry is in poor condition, then the obvious thing to do is to have it restored and should its restoration not prove feasable, then a suitably large copy a crucifixion by Rubens or Reni should be commissioned to replace it. A model is readily available in the chapel of the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock in Cork. The idea of placing a “simple golden cross” on the rear wall behind the High Alar simply will not work – as is clear from the frescoed “golden cross” behind the High Altar in St. Patrick’s, Dunmanway.

The idea that “the ‘Lamb of God’ is the focal point of this entire church” is a piece of piocious clap-trap to be dismissed as risable by anyone who knows anything about a sanctuary arrangement in a neo-palladian church which all derive from Andrea Palladio’s designs for the chapel of the Ospedaletto di Santa Maria dei derelitti ai Santi Giovanni e Paolo in Venice done in 1575. While the original has not survived as built, it would still be useful for some public-spirited charity to subsidise a trip to Venice for the author of this document in the hope that he MIGHT learn something.

Also, the altar rail is an essential component of the building and of Br. O’Riordan’s original design and no excuse exists for its destruction.

Again, the proposals for the paint scheme in the church are deplorably dismissive of any interest in discovering what the origial scheme might have looked like and of restoring it.

It would also have been a good idea at this point to remove the monstrosity intruded into the interior of Bantry Church by Boyd Barrett – a worthy notable for his destruction of John Hogan’s Retable and monument to Bishop John Murphy in the North Cathedral in Cork!

The following pictures should help to illustrate what will happen in Bantry were the Crucufixion picture to be removed and a “simple golden cross” put in its place:

1. St. John the Baptist in Kinsale with its Altar piece still in place and central focus of the church and sanctuary

2. St Patrick’s Dunmanway which has lost its Altar piece and where an inappropriate mural has been painted which is incapable of asserting itself sufficiently to be a central focus.

3. St. Colman’s Church, Balintotas, Midleton, where the aALtar piece has completely disappeared along with the lateral pictures leaving a complete blank.

4. The Chapel of the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock which is the only extant building that can be ascribed to Br. O’Riordan with certainty since the foundation inscription describes him as the architect.

5. And this is what John Lynch (a member of the inglorious Cloyne HACK) did to Killavullen discarding the Altar Piece in his Bhudhasization of the sanctuary.

And just in case Tom Sullivan thinks that Brother O’Riordan was not “that familiar with the opus of Andrea Palladio notice the following pictures:

1. The Santissimo Redentore in Venice built by Palladio 1576-1591. Note the string course cornice running along the lateral wall between the Diocletian windows, across the facade, to opposite lateral wall (1&4).

Brother O’Riordan repeats this feature at the springing of the window arches in his churches at Kinsale (2), Skibbereen (5), Ovens and Bantry (3). Note the string course running between the windows of lateral walls and across the facade to the other lateral wall.

Here we have another example of the sttring course detail running along the lateral walls and acros the facade: St. John the Baptist’s Ovens, Co. Cork built in 1831.

The photograph of the interior shows clearly why Tom Sullivan’s proposal for a cross over the Altar in Bantry will not work and why the proposed bland paint scheme is both inappropriate and lacking in imagination.

John Hogan’s monument to Bishop Michael Collins (1827-1832) Cloyne and Ross who built the Pro-Cathedral Church of St. Patrick at Skibbereen in 1826.

Samuel Forde, the Cork painter responsible for the three pictures originally for the Altar of the Pro-Cathedral in Skibbereen and now in St. Barrahane’s at Castlehaven.

St. Mary’s Church Passage West, Cork, which dates to 1791.

The location is indicative of its date. It is built on the site behind the site adjacent to the highway. Unfortunately, no one has yet thought of demolishing the houses obscuring the church.

It would appear that the present facade of the church is possibly of a later date and well depicts what a facade would have been been before 1829 with the absence of its bellcot. Charleville had one erected on the gable after 1829. Note, however, that the bellcot is over the sanctuary of the church.

It would also appear that the interior is later than 1791 and probably the result of an improvement in the 1820s or 1830s. Unfortunately, the serliana has lost its pictures and the Crucifix has been hung too high. The chromatic scheme is a horror. The loss of the altar rail is to be lamented. The porch at the front of the church displays a particularly sensitive aesthetic sense. It has been more recently “accomodated”.

And here is an extraordinary development of the serliana. I can only describe it as Hindu-gothic -as the famous gateway at Dromana. If anyone wants to look, you will find it at St Mary’s, Coolagown near Castlelyons ina co. Cork.

@Praxiteles wrote:

And here is an extraordinary development of the serliana. I can only describe it as Hindu-gothic -as the famous gateway at Dromana. If anyone wants to look, you will find it at St Mary’s, Coolagown near Castlelyons ina co. Cork.

Perusing the work of Br O’Riordan, I must ask, why the incursion of so many plaster statues? Those churches best preserved retain the paintings and have not replaced them with garish plaster statues of vastly inferior quality.

Speculations?

Drawings of the Pantheon from Sebastiano Serlio Libro Terzo of 1580 showing the High Altar and a side altar;and the entrance facade.

Here we have Michael Augustine O’Riordan’s treatment of the side altars in St. John the Baptist’s in Kinsale. The broken pediment supported on corinthins columns, all surmounting the altar (since stupidly demolished), all framed between two corinthian pilasters. The arrangement derives from Serlio’s description of the Tabernaculi of the Pantheon in his Libro Terzo.

In the Kinsale arrangement, the framing of the side altars by pilasters, as in the Pantheon, required the use of a pilaster rather than a column behind the corinthian columns supporting the central canopy.

The treatment of the side altars in Cloyne parish church, the pediment supported by corinthian columns, surmounting an altar, this time witout the framing corinthian pilasters.

Some shots of the interior of the Pantheon showing the High Altar, an arch flanked by two side altars all linked by a continuing cornice. While the High Altar has corinthian columns, the entrance opposite is framed by two side altars between corinthian pilasters.

The exterior of the Pantheon showing the circumventing cornice carried across the facade, with the same idea used by Palladio in the Redentore in Venice

Presentation convent chapel in Clonmel. Any chanc of a shot? O’Riordan built the original convent.

possibly soon. Have you a close-up of the monument in kinsale on the left? is it by hogan?

Yes! This monument was done by Hogan in Rome to commemorate Fr. Justin Foley McNamara (1789-1845), parish priest of Kinsale and a nephew of John Murphy, Bishop of Cork (one of Hogan’s earliest patron’s). It was commissioned in 1846 and made between April and July 1848. It was sent to Ireland on 17 July 1849. I think it was commissioned by Bishop Murphy or else by his other nephew Archdeacon John Murphy (who built Sts Peter and Paul’ in Cork).

There was also a bust of Fr. McNamara in the Convent of Mercy in Kinsale, which had been founded by McNamara’s sister. It was done by Hogan in 1828 while McNamara was in Rome. I have no idea of where that might presently be found as the convent has closed and the building was the sbject of an appeal to An Bord Planneala – its intended destruction, like Cobh Cathedral, advocated by Brian McCutcheon. Fortunately, that attempt also failed.

Justin McNamara died on 31 December 1845 at Gibralter on his way to Rome. The significance of the upturned mitre suggests that he had been named a bishop – possibly of Cloyne and Ross.

P.S.: Hogan also did the monument for Bishop Michael Collins in the Pro-Cathedral in Skibbereen.

The Cathedral of Santa Maria Assunta in Pienza (1458-1462) by Rossillino/ Leon Battista Alberti

The Tempio della Madonna di San Biagio, Montepulciano by Sangallo 1518-1545.

The Tempietto del Bramante

Tempio di Santa Maria della Consolazione in Todi.

some one has asked why the sanctuaries in Br O’Riordan’s churches tend to have two doors leading to the sacristy located behind the east wall of the church. The two doors are explained by a requirement of the Roman Ritual which prescribed that for the celebration of High Mass he celebrant arrive at the altar on the gospel side (North Side) and keave the sancturay from the epistle or South side. This resilted in two doors being provided for access to the sacristy.

@Praxiteles wrote:

some one has asked why the sanctuaries in Br O’Riordan’s churches tend to have two doors leading to the sacristy located behind the east wall of the church. The two doors are explained by a requirement of the Roman Ritual which prescribed that for the celebration of High Mass he celebrant arrive at the altar on the gospel side (North Side) and keave the sancturay from the epistle or South side. This resilted in two doors being provided for access to the sacristy.

The source for this information is Michaelis Bauldry, Manuale Sacrarum Ceraemoniarum , (fourth edition), Venice, 1717, p. 162.
http://www.loquo.com/ps/compra-venta/libros-revistas/manuale-sacrarum-ano-1778/3749094

The Cork Exchange Building built c. 1711 in the Italian (Palladian) Style

Ballintotis Church, Midleton, Co. Cork

Here we have a shot of Ballintotis church. Reports have been confirmed that the sacristy of this church was demolished about two weeks ago. Although this is a protected structure, no planning application was made to Cork County Council for works to be carried out to the church. The County Council has no record of any declaration having been made for works to be carried out at Ballintotis. It looks as though we are dealing with a case of the cowboys in the night – and the only way to stop that is to prosecute and seek exemplary sentencing.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Ballintotis Church, Midleton, Co. Cork

Here we have a shot of Ballintotis church. Reports have been confirmed that the sacristy of this church was demolished about two weeks ago. Although this is a protected structure, no planning application was made to Cork County Council for works to be carried out to the church. The County Council has no record of any declaration having been made for works to be carried out at Ballintotis. It looks as though we are dealing with a case of the cowboys in the night – and the only way to stop that is to prosecute and seek exemplary sentencing.

ABSOLUTELY! Laws were put in place to prevent what happened in this case.

What has become of the rule of law??

St. Mary’s Church, Pope’s Quay, Cork, as it appeared in June 1852 without its portico.

The Queen’s Chapel at St. James Palace.

Built 1623/1625 by Inigo Jones in the Palladian manner as a Catholic Chapel for the consort of King Charles I, Queen Henrietta Maria.

The interior, as fashioned by Jones, contained what was probably the first application of a Serliana altarpiece in the British Isles and was clearly based on the Ospedaletto in Venice. Unfortunately, the original interior is no longer extant.

Would anyone be able to locate Johannes Kip’s view of the interior of the Queen’s Chapel as it existed in 1688 following the restorations of 1662 and those of Sir Christopher Wren carried out in 1682-1684.

The Queen’s Chapel by Inigo Jones built 1623-1625 as engraved by Johannes Nap in 1688 when it still functioned as a Catholic chapel for Catherine of Braganza, the Queen Consort of Charles II. It shows the altar piece erected 1682-1684 by Sir Christopher Wren.

The ceiling is by Inigo Jones and is one of hte few decorative elements foreseen by Jones.

Here we have a portrait of Charles I with his consort henrietta Maria and their eldest children, Charles (II) and Princess Mary. It was painted by Antonie van Dyck c. 1632/33.

It appears that three pictures in the altar piece of the Queen’s Chapel are by Caracci.

It appears that the Queen’s Chapel was the first chapel built in ENgland in the Palladian style.

Something of the functioning of the Queen’s Chapel under Catherine of Braganza, Queen Consort of Charles II:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z92wf0IMv6EC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=%22the+queen’s+chapel%22&source=web&ots=N7hwQm4nTn&sig=i7h2nkvUIfQpv2yRMkUZSzV7zrE#PPA59,M1

In Sir Christopher Wren’s serliana of 1682/1684 the pictures by Annibale Caracci depict Our Lady and the Child Jesus with Saints Joseph, John the Baptist and Catherine -the last referring to Catherine of Braganza.

Here we have an engraving of Fermoy bridge printed in Anne Plumbtre’s (1760-1818) A Narrative of a Residence in Ireland in 1814 and in 1815 published in London in 1817 showing the recently built classical church in Fermoy (top left).

The Tomb of Francis I and Claude de France at teh Royla Abbey of St. Denis, Paris.

It was executed by Philibert de L’Orme and Pierre Bontemps between 1548 and 1559.

Philibet de L’Orme succeeded Sebastiano Serlio as architect to the King of France. The monumental frame for the tomb was modelled on the Arch of Septimus Severus -ehich featured inSebastiano Serlio’s Quattro Libri.

The order used here, however, is ionic rather than Corinthian.

St. Lacteen’s Church, Grenagh, Co. Cork

Built c. 1831 in the classical idiom and subsequently gothicised.

It has a Serialna altar piece and a retro-sacristy

Here are some views of the Altar Piece. It retains its reredos but has lost its pictures, the two votice ante-standing side altars, the original High Altar appears to have been relpaced in a marble replica (as in Dunmanway).

St. Lacteen’s Church, Grenagh, Co. Cork (c.1831)

Another view of the church from the transept.

St. Lacteen’s Church, Grenagh, Co. Cork (C.1831)

The phenomenon of an architect/religious was not uncommon in Counter Reformation Europe. Br. O’Riordan’s career as builder of churches and schools can quite easily be compared with those of early members of the Company of Jesus especially in Italy and in the German Provinces.

As examples, we can cite:

Andrea del Pozzo

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Pozzo

Guiseppe Valeriano

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Valeriano

Daniel Saghers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Seghers

Reinhard Ziegler SJ

The Jesuit church at Aschaffenburg
The Jesuit College in Mainz
A design for the Maria-Himmelfahrt Church in Cologne

Brother Stephan Huber born in Ingolstadt, he joined the Comnapy of Jesus at Landsberg in 1587 and died at Constance in 1616.

– Built St. Konrad’s church in Constance
The Allerheiligenkirche in Hall-im-Tirol
The Novitiate house in Landsberg
The Jesuit house in Ochsenhausen

Brother Johann Holl, a trained joiner frpm Bonn, joined the Jejsuits after his conversion in 1619.

He was responsible for:

The rebuilding of the choir of the and nave of the Heiligekreuzkirche in Ingolstadt
The renovation of the Liebrauenkirchen in Mindelheim
The Jesuit College in Landshut
The Ignatiuskirche in Landshut

Jakob Kurrer (1585-1647), born in Ingolstadt he entered the Company of Jesus in 1611 as a trained mason.

He was responsible for:

The Jesuit College in Pruntrut
The Jesuit house in Ensisheim
The Jesuit College in Eichstaett
The Jesuit College in Innsbruck
The Jesuit houe in Regensburg
Works on the Jesuit college in Ingolstadt
The Collegiate Hofkirche in Lucerne
The Jesuit College in Burghausen
A building for the Augustinian monastery at Herrenchiesee

Fr. Christoph Scheiner (1575-1650)

The Dreifaltigkeitskirche in Innsbruck

Fr. Karl Fontaner

The Dreifaltigkeitskirche in Innsbruck

The following Jesuits are other examples of the architect/religious:

– Gian Maria BERNARDONI, SJ (1541-1605)

Gian Maria Bernardoni did extensive work for the Radziwilli family in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

One of his greatest achievements was the Corpus Christi church in Nesvizh (currently in White Russia) which is the first domed baroque church in Eastern Europe.

– The Blessed Carlo SPINOLA, SJ (1564-1622), martyred in Japan, http://www.sjweb.info/jesuits/saintShow.cfm?SaintID=25

Architect of the famous facade of the church of St. Paul in Macao http://www.macauheritage.net/Info/HistMonuE.asp?id=49

– Francois d’AGUILLON, SJ, (1567-1617)

Architect for the church of San Carlo Borromeo in Antwerp http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_d%27Aguilon

– Luca BIENNI, SJ (1572-1613)

Architect in Northern Italy and responsible for the Sanctuary and Basilica of San Luigi Gonzaga at Castiglione delle Stiviere on Lake Garda.

– Brother Pieter HUYSSENS SJ (1577-1637)

Architect for:

St. Loup in Namour (1621-1645)
San Carlo Borromeo in Antwerp (1615-1623) http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/arch/borromeo_ant.html
St. Walburga’s in Bruges (1619-1642) http://www.belgiumview.com/belgiumview/tl1/view0001207.php4
St. Peter’s, Ghent begun in 1629 http://www.belgiumview.com/belgiumview/tl1/view0001385.php4
http://www.all-art.org/history252-15b.html

– Brother Jean de BLOCQ SJ (1538-1656)

Cathedral of Luxembourg (1613) http://www.gouvernement.lu/dossiers/viepol/grande_duchesse_josephine_charlotte/dossier_de_presse/Cathedral_DE.doc
St. Martin’s in Chateau Cambrésis (1634)
Jesuit College Chapel in St. Omar (1615-1640)

– Brother Giacomo BRIANO SJ (1589-1649) born in Modena

Brother Giacomo was architect for the Company of Jesus in Northern Italy and in Poland. He is responsible for:

The Cathedral of Vitus in Rijeka, Croatia (1638)
The Jesuit Church in Lviv
The Jesuit church in Przemysl in the Ukraine. http://www.kki.pl/pioinf/przemysl/zabytki/koscioly/jezuit/jezuit.html

-Brother Willem HESIUS SJ (1601-1690) entered the Society of Jesus in Antwerp in 1617.

Architect to the Company of Jesu in the Lower German Province he was responsible for:

St. Michael’s in Louvain begun in 1650 and completed in 1670.

– Brother Anton LOSSON SJ

Architect to the Company of Jesus in the Lower German Provinces, he was responsible for:

St. Peter and Paul’s in Mechlin

РBrother Giovanni PRIMOLI SJ (1673-1755 [born in Milan] and Brother Andr̩s BIANCHI SJ (1677-1740)

http://www.companysj.com/v174/missionart.htm

Both did extensive work in Argentina and Uruguay. Their work included:

The Cathedral of Buenos Aires
The Cathedral of Cordoba

– Brother Tomas ZEBRAUSKAS, SJ (1714-1758)

Brother Tomas was architect for the Cmpany of Jesus in Lithuania and was responsible for:

The Jesuit chuch of St. Casimir in Vilnius

-Fr. Ignatius SCOLES SJ (1834-1896)

Fr. Scoles was architect for the Company of Jesus in Guyana.

-Fr. Alphonsus TAIX, SJ was architect for the Company in Madagascar.

– Brother Polydor Verbrugge, SJ (1870-1949)

Brother Polydor was architect for the Company of Jesus in Ceylon.

Other eamples of Jesuit architect/religious are:

– Philippe Lemair SJ (1608-1671), born in Flanders, a shipbuilder who entered the Society of Jesus in Brazil and turned to church building in Argentina, Paraguay, and Uruguay.

– Johann Kraus (1664-1714) born in Pilsen in Bohemia went to Argentina as an architect of the Company of Jesus.

– Peter Weger (1693-1733) from the Upper German Province of the Society of Jesus went to Argentina as an architect of the Company of Jesus.

In the Polish province of the Company of Jesus:

– Pawel GIZYCKI, SJ (1692-1762)

Arctect for the church and college of St Ignatius and St. Stanislaus Kostka in Krzemieniec

This is one of thefirst examples of the serliana gateways to be used in England. It was designed by Inigo Jones in 1610 as part of a stage set for a masque entitled Oberon: The Fairy Prince.

Inigo Jones

The Queen’s Chapel at St. James’ Palace. It combines a domestic exterior with a temple interior. The foundation stone was laid on 23 May 1623 as part of the conditions of the marriage contract of Dauphine of France, Henrietta Maria, to Charles I for the assurance of the free practice of her (Catholic) religion. Jones based the ceiling on the coffered ceiling of the reproduction of the Temple of the Sun and Moon (The Temple of Venus and Rome) in Palladio’s Book IV of the Quattro Libri.

The pediment of the Queen’s Chapel is based on earlier designs by Inigo Jones for the Prince’s lodgings at Newmarket 16-18-19 and demolished under Cromwell.

In his book Palladio and Palladianism Robert Tavernor seem to confuse the serliana altar piece of the East end of the Queen’s chapel with a Venetian window – which he says is “the first time this motof was built in a design by Jones” (p.130). The pictures are (I think) by Caracci.

Has anyone any pictures of the present interior of the Queen’s chapel?

And can anyone confirm for me that the Queen’s chapel has (or had) a retrosacristy?

Buhlmann’s 1913 reconstruction of the Temple of Venus and Rome

The emains fo the Temple of Venus and Rome

Andrea Palladio’s reconstruction of the Temple of Venus and Rome as published in his Quattro Libri of 1570 adn depicting the coffers used by Inigo Jones as models for the ceiling of the Queen’s Chapel..

The proscenium arch of the Teatro Olimpico at Vicenza built by Andrea Palladio and Vincenso Scamozzi between 1580-1585 – based on the Arch of Constantine in Rome.

The Church of the Sacred heart, Lemlara, Co. Cork

@Praxiteles wrote:

Inigo Jones

The Queen’s Chapel at St. James’ Palace. It combines a domestic exterior with a temple interior. The foundation stone was laid on 23 May 1623 as part of the conditions of the marriage contract of Dauphine of France, Henrietta Maria, to Charles I for the assurance of the free practice of her (Catholic) religion. Jones based the ceiling on the coffered ceiling of the reproduction of the Temple of the Sun and Moon (The Temple of Venus and Rome) in Palladio’s Book IV of the Quattro Libri.

The pediment of the Queen’s Chapel is based on earlier designs by Inigo Jones for the Prince’s lodgings at Newmarket 16-18-19 and demolished under Cromwell.

In his book Palladio and Palladianism Robert Tavernor seem to confuse the serliana altar piece of the East end of the Queen’s chapel with a Venetian window – which he says is “the first time this motof was built in a design by Jones” (p.130). The pictures are (I think) by Caracci.

Has anyone any pictures of the present interior of the Queen’s chapel?

And can anyone confirm for me that the Queen’s chapel has (or had) a retrosacristy?

Concerning the Queen’s Chpel, W. Maziere Brady in his Annals of the Catholic Hierarchy in England and Scotland A.D. 1585-1876 (1877) quotes a section of the Memoire kept by Gregorio Pazani, an Oratorian chosen by Cardinal Barberini to be an unofficial Papal agent in England assigned to the court of Queen Henrietta Maria. Panzani mentions: “On her arrival in England, her Majesty, Queen Henrietta, in conformity with the stipulations effected by aid of your Holiness, opened, besides her own private chapel, another, a public one, wherein by the Fathers of the Oratory at first, and afterwards by the Capuchins in their habits, were recited the Divine Offices, and Masss were said and Sacraments administered. At these services, the King and all his Court are present upon the high festival days, with notable edification. In this chapel the Divine Offices are celebrated with aid of excellent music, and it is incredible what good effect is produced on the congregations, not only by the beautiful ornament of the chapel and altar, and the correct performance of the ecclesiactical ceremonies, but also by the sermons delivered by the Capuchins, and occasionally by the Queen’s Almoner, the Bishop of Angouleme”.

I have come into possession of an original water color of Black Rock Church. It is titled “Black Rock Church, County of Cork, Ireland. Struck by lightning on the 29th of January 1836”. Would you be interested in seeing a photograph of the watercolor?
Kenneth Cade
23795 Cade’s Cove Road
Chandler, TX, USA
kennethcade@embarqmail.com
Feel free to email me direct.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Re: Inigo Jones
Has anyone any pictures of the present interior of the Queen’s chapel?

And can anyone confirm for me that the Queen’s chapel has (or had) a retrosacristy?

I don’t know exactly how recent this is, it’s from David Watkin’s ‘English Architecture’, T&H World of Art series. Not sure what a retrosacristy is :confused:

Sorry about the grainy scans! I think there’s quite a nice similarity between the Queen’s Chapel and Old St, Fin Barre’s (lifted from Irish 18th Century Stuccowork and it’s European Sources) from a century later.

Gunter, this is brilliant!

The Chapel, as it is, was refurbished by Sir Christopher Wrenn after 1660 for Queen Catherine, Charles II consort. The chapel was buit for Catholic worship by Inigo Jones as part of the marriage contract of Queen Marie Henriette (de France). It continued as a place of Catholic worship until the death of Queen Catherine c. 1720 – although she had long returned to Portugal her establishment (Somerset House) continued.

Note the two doors at either side of the sancturay – whicha re prescribed for the ceremonies of High Mass. The ministers come by the door on the left and leave by the door on the right – thereby completing an anti-clockwise circle, symbol of purification since Roman times.

Also, what appears to be a gellery behind the Altar, which, if so, is a direct reference to Palladio’s arrangement of the Chapel of the Ospadelatto in Venice. Indeed, this arrangement by Palladio is the direct source for all of these sanctuary and altar arrangements.

The similarities with old St Finnbarr’s in Cork is not an accident. It was rebuilt early in the 18th. century following the bombardment of the city during the Williamite seige. The “Italian” style made its appearence in Cork c. 1710 with the building of the New Exchange Building and with the rebuilding of several churches replaced or rebuilt in the first half of the 18th century. Many of these were again replaced in Gothic idiom in the 19th century. But, St Mary’s Shandon which dates form c. 1730s still has its Palladian form and its tower, up to recently, had its classical urns at all atsges until they were taken down recently adn replaced on only two of the stages in common concrete.

By retrosacristy, we mean that because, among other things, of the double door requirement in the sanctuary, the sacristy is built on to the east wall and is to be found immediately behind the altar. In Gothic churches, the sacrist is located to the north or south side of the sanctuary. In some early perpendiicular neo-Gothic churches of the 1820s and 1830 (and in some cases later) the classical retroscaristy incongruently survived, or else, two sacristies were built at either side of the sanctuary.

Hi guys, great thread. Could anyone tell me if Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan desigened any of the building in the North Monastery? I’m guessing maybe the old Primary school that was knocked down in the 1940/50’s?

@themonboys wrote:

Hi guys, great thread. Could anyone tell me if Brother Michael Augustine O’Riordan desigened any of the building in the North Monastery? I’m guessing maybe the old Primary school that was knocked down in the 1940/50’s?

Not at all impossible. Do you have any pictures? A schooll built by him in Cobh was knocked down a few years ago with the permission of the enlightened Town Council.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Not at all impossible. Do you have any pictures? A schooll built by him in Cobh was knocked down a few years ago with the permission of the enlightened Town Council.

This is the only picture I’ve ever seen of the old primary school in the Mon. It was reluctantly knocked down in the late 40’s or early 50’s because it was crumbling and beyond salvation. It was over 100 years old at that stage so it would of been late in Brother Riordan life if he did do the plans for it.

After doing a little reading on his style I found this

“Some “trademark” features common to his churches were the placing of large holy water fonts facing outwards on the front façade and having twin doors at either side of the Altar leading to the sacristy area.”
http://iefamily.ie/History.html

and it reminded me of the Brother Burke building with isn’t Brother Riordan work ( it was built in 1909 i believe) but maybe done in his style. I think there’s holy water fonts just behind the gates and the twin doors. Anyone else see it or am I barking up the wrong tree?

The reference to twin Holy Water fonts is from an article done in the 1970s and published in the Cork Evening Echo (?) by the then City architect. While useful, Praxiteles would not put too much store in the “characteristic” of twin holy warter fonts – they also feature, for example, in Fermoy which is an E.W. Pugin facade (1867) and in Buttevant which is Charles Cottrell (1832) and are both neo-gothic.

Characteristic of O’Riordan’s churches are the types: elaborate triangular monocameral (eg. Doneraile), T shaped (Kinsale, Skibbereen, and Dunmanway), simple monocameral village (CastletownKinneagh and Ballyhea) and a more articulate version of the same (Killavullen possibly Inchigeela). All are strictly proportioned, the more elaborate having niches, pilasters, and finials of either pines or urns. Many of these features are derived fairly immediately from the published architectural studies of Serlio and Palladio.

The most important features of these churches are the Serliana altar pieces – elaborate retables usually in the Corinthian order, tripartite, containing a central High Altar flanked by two side altars, with two doors leading to and coming from a retrosacristy. The retables usually contained three pictures; a crucifixion over the high Altar, a picture of the Blessed Virgin on the right (or Gospel) side of the High Altar and the patron saint of the church on the other side.

Most unfortunately, Praxiteles believes than none of the surviving serliana altar pieces is in tact. Not infrequently, the High Altars were “upgraded” in the 19th century, sometimes the pictures have disappeared, in other cases the serilana has been demolished completely, in other cases the flanking altars were demolished in the post Vatican II iconoclasm. In practically all cases the carved altar rails have all disappeared.

Re the school building, it wouold be useful to compare this photograph with a photograph of the school built fo Bishop Coppinger in Cobh. You will find it on the thread dealing with the reorganisation and destuction of Irish Catholic Churches.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Re the school building, it wouold be useful to compare this photograph with a photograph of the school built fo Bishop Coppinger in Cobh. You will find it on the thread dealing with the reorganisation and destuction of Irish Catholic Churches.

I’ve searched for the picture of the school in Cobh but was unable to locate it.

St Patrick’s Church, Dunmanway,

Exterior post 1870 ante 1914:

Interior same perior:

Kinsale posi 1880 ante 1914

Millstreet, Co Cork

Originl facade post 1870 ante 1914

and an earlier image:

St Petrick’s Pro-Cathedral Church, Skibbereen, Co. Cork

post 1883/84 ante 1914

The following photographs show G.E. Ashlin’s alteratrions to the original design. These included the construction of a romanesque apse, a new sanctuary, and the building of arches in front of the galleries (as the photograph shows, the pillars of the arches were built right in front of the original galleries).

St. Finbarr’s Inchigeela, post 1880 ante 1914

The Presentation Convent, Clonmel, Co. Tipperary

St. Michael’s, Blackrock, Co. Cork, 1818

This church was destroyed by fire in January 1962 and subsequently replaced by a nondescript modern one.

From the photographs here, we see that the High Altar had a typical Serliana tripartite form. However, as with all of Br. O’Riordan’s churches, it had been altered prior to 1962 by a new central altar with a high pinacle requiring the re-hanging of the crucifixion picture (a further copy of Guido Reni’s work either in San Lorenzo in Lucina in Rome or in the Este collection). It also appears that the flanking pendants have been replaced by statues in niches – as in Passage West.

The external photographs show the typical retro-sacristy, east bell-cote with rope entering the sacristy (as for example is still the case in Doneraile).

The facade is interesting in that it appears to be something of a composition integrating elements of Doneraile (1827) and Kinsale with a much more clearly define door frame. The dedicatory stone is positioned as in other examples of O’Riordan’s work. The window is clearly not original. The holy water stoops are typical. The Cross is an example of the kind that originally was found on the pinnacle of Doneraile. The urns are similar to those found on the fcade of Millstreet church.

The Serliana Altar Pieces at Kinsale, Dunmanway and Bantry in the late 19th. Century

Kinsale

http://www.nli.ie/glassplates/L_ROY/L_ROY_02670.jpg

Dunmanway

http://www.nli.ie/glassplates/L_ROY/L_ROY_10280.jpg

Bantry

http://www.nli.ie/glassplates/L_ROY/L_ROY_11044.jpg