Dorset St (Upper)

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This topic contains 76 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  urbanisto 6 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #704966

    No.42
    Participant

    Does anyone know what happening on Dorset St. opposite the Big Tree. There were hoardings going up around the Bathroom showrooms this morning (big white geogianesque building slightly recessed from street) .

    I took a look at the Planning permission application & the bit I could make out [1] detailed no.68 & 69 Dorset St. to become 5 storey over basement apartments.

    There is no mention of what’s happening next door. The old showroom & it’s rear yard accounts for most of that block.

    Anyone know anything?

    [1] How are these documents supposed to be decoded by the general public?

  • #715837

    dc3
    Participant

    Dont know anything about this change but perhaps Dorset Street offers the finest, most relevant, introduction to Irish architecture.

    It has everything, well everything that you could be ashamed of anyhow.

    It could be a fantastic street, almost a ceremonial entrance for travellers from the airport to the city. It even has some decent buildings in it.

    Some day the man in the anorak is going to notice it, and then we will spend billions on ticky tacky.

  • #715838

    GregF
    Participant

    What a broad street….infact it’s buildings are indeed too short for it’s span and let’s say quite mediocre and grotty too bar some.

  • #715839

    Drawingboard
    Participant

    There are some interesting buildings on it – the former fire station and one of two large houses that look like they predate it as a street and were built when it was a country lane. Most of it is vernacular dross however.

  • #715840

    Frank Taylor
    Participant

    What could be done to improve this dreary, run-down street? It’s like a mouth full of rotten teeth with gaping holes and plenty of putrid decay. The buildings are all different heights between 1 and 5 storeys. Many of them have 60’s suburban picture windows inserted into dilapidated period buildings. And yet, it’s the main boulevard into Dublin from the northside, the equivalent of Leeson Street on the southside.

    The width of the road would easily allow 8-10 storey structures. Could it be zoned for rebuilding at this height? And would this rezoning be enough to persuade the owners to knock and rebuild?

    Rezoning costs nothing after all.

  • #715841

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Yes a sorry sorry place – it hasn’t changed one iota since 1990, one of the few (but still fairly widespread) enclaves of 1980s dismal Dublin.

    Yes it is a place where a higher density ought to be achievable, but it would be crucial that open spaces and parks are provided for here. What’s partly causing the depressing nature of the place is the rows of three storey red brick 80s housing and acres of concrete and roadway. There would be a risk, especially given the history of the area, of 7-8 storey apartment blocks going up lining nothing but a bare motorway.

    There’s some fascinating remnants of Georgain Dublin about the place that offer a wonderful introduction to the character and feel of the city – always loved them coming into the city as a child, just they’re all in bits and look terrible in their current state.

    Does anyone know what’s happening with the old garage site opposite the Wax Museum? A prime candidate if ever there was one for some decent residential development. These stock brick chimeys lining the site are most unusual – anyone know anything about them?

    And these new walls outside the flats on Dorset St (I know, how incredibly two-faced and snobby to call Docklands dev apartments and these ‘the flats’, but if you described these as such you’d be laughed out of it :o) – the blue bricks and curves are pretty cool.

  • #715842

    GregF
    Participant

    I see at long last that the much neglected Dorset Street is being repaved in parts with an island being placed in the middle of the road. A much needed improvement.

  • #715843

    Anonymous
    Participant

    yeah some lovely fastigiate oaks going in there, gives the street some much needed structure.
    Not normally in favour of island tree planting dividing a street but seems like a good move in this case …

  • #715844

    hutton
    Participant

    @Dublin City Council wrote:

    Dorset Street and Canal Area Plan

    Urban and Village Renewal Programme (http://www.eustructuralfunds.ie)
    The Plan was approved in 2001 as one of two areas in Dublin to benefit from funding under the above DOE/EU programme. The aim of the measure is to provide financial support for a range of interventions to upgrade cities, to make them more attractive places in which to live and work, encourage social and economic development of tourism and tourist related activities

    The Dorset Street/Canal Area Plan focuses on a substantial area of the North Inner City. The area encompasses the spine of Dorset Street, The Royal Canal. Despite its strategic location in relation to the city centre, and the strength of some of its components, the area has suffered from an image of decay and low investment.

    In May 2002, the Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern unveiled a major rejuvenation plan for the Dorset Street area. Initially the plan was to concentrate on improving the Dorset Street corridor from Drumcondra to Capel Street plus the nearby Royal Canal. This would also provide for improvements to the nearby areas of Mountjoy Square, Summerhill, Ballybough, Hardwick Street, and Dominick Street etc. This plan was prepared to tackle the challenges posed for the area, and to compliment a number of existing improvements.

    After a period of consultation with the local community and businesses in the area, the following key aspects of the plan were identified. Improving the quality of paving, lighting, street furniture and planting, Furthermore to maintain and restore the water body of the Royal Canal, to establish opportunities for infill development and improved streetscape, to provide new/improved play facilities, and to introduce CCTV systems.

    To date the following have been achieved in addressing these priorities:

    · The refurbishment of No.15 Henrietta Street to house Na Piobairi Uillean Interpretive and Heritage Centre.
    · The installation of a high quality children’s playground in Mountjoy Square Park.
    · The complete resurfacing of the carriageway on Dorset Street.
    · The opening of a Dublin City Council Area Office on Dorset Street to cater for the provision of services for local residents.
    · A precinct improvement programme at Sheridan Court, including the installation of security railings, hard and soft landscaping, lighting and repaving.
    · The refurbishment of the tow-paths along the canal from Summerhill Parade to Jones Road and from Cross Guns Bridge to Binns Bridge, including the installation of new lighting and CCTV cameras, the resurfacing of the tow-paths and the erection of a statue to Brendan Behan.
    · The completion of the section from Whithworth Road to St. Alphonsas Road. A tree-lined central median has been installed on the East and West side.

    By the end of November we will see the completion of the section from Binns Bridge to Eccles Place. The final section of the canal from Jones Road to Binns Bridge is also due for completion along with the installation of a new pocket park, including a children’s playground, for Portland Place.
    (Taken from: http://www.dublincity.ie/living_in_the_city/your_area/central/central_area_projects/dorset_street_and_canal_area_plan.asp )

    “major rejuvenation” my arse – we are 5 years on and the only noticeable changes are:

    – Dorset St is now a central axis in DCCs Inner Orbital Route
    – A few trees being planted in the central median, a couple of months before the election. There are no plans to extend this as far as Capel St/ Bolton St junction, which would have struck me as the logical starting/ finishing point.
    – The little bit of landscaping outside the flats as photod by Graham, which I also like. Ftr this scheme was designed by Mitchell and Assocs.

    Whats really needed here is a strategic assessment – not the (albeit well-meaning) superficial treatment that is then described as a “major rejuvenation”.

    A couple of points that I have noted about the street:

    1 On the City Development Plan maps, it is marked down as “Dorset St Corridor“: this speaks volumes about how it is viewed and so then how it is treated. It is somewhere to drive thru as opposed to being of merit in itself – something which I believe is having a devestatingly crippling effect on the adjacent areas in that this spinal street divides as opposed to uniting this area.

    2 Road markings, parking arrangements, and footpaths have not been altered since the 1980s – despite it being on the Inner Orbital Route; hence at various places 2 lanes merge into 1, while at other spots parking may or may not be allowed according to the time of day. There is no sense of permanency or structure in these arrangements; the st serves a purpose to the wider community in terms of thru-traffic, but this should be managed in a way that does not deprive the street of functioning within its own terms.

    3 It is a hostile environment for the pedestrian and non-car users; footpaths should be dramatically widened – especially in the context of the above, where there are currently just useless half-lanes. Traffic refuges and islands – not a dualer / parnell st style median please – should be inserted at strategic locations such as the junctions with Blessington St, Eccles St etc.

    4 An environmental and architectural audit desperately needs to be carried out. Certain buildings have charm or architectural interest but are lost in the current context; this includes blind arcaded windows in 18 c terraced buildings, the disgracefully run-down home of Richard Brinsley Sheridan, the fire station, and the terrace of what should be grade A georgians at the corner with Blessington St – which are unfortunately covered in gray render. Any regeneration worth its salt would target these as a landmark project for repointing etc.
    Another significant problem is the lack of engagement by many properties with the st; one could make an exception for the gothic revival corner of Dominick St Lwr, but there are many others for which there is no excuse – such as the flats on the corner of Dominick St Upr which are perpendicular to the st… And then theres the massive site formerly occupied by a garage opposite the former wax museum (Mongeys, I think); I have checked in woodquay and could find no record of an application on this site – if this is simply site-hoarding, then it is completely unacceptable and should be CPO’ed under 212 of the 2000 act. It is a priority that this be redeveloped to a high spec

    But aside from all of this, the relationship of usage is very important; what cultural institutions can you think of on the st that you would ever go to? Perhaps in relocating the central library maybe DCC should look at the venitian fire station. Before density is looked at, I suggest usage should be targeted – and only then should it be looked at upping the density in an overall conext, imo. Time for a “Dorset St District” as opposed to “Corridor”? 😉

  • #715845

    notjim
    Participant

    well to be fair we have beautifull new pavements and new trees are being added to the meridian this week

  • #715846

    -Donnacha-
    Participant

    In fairness, the tree planting and footpath upgrade is pretty extensive and has gone quite quickly, compared to O’Connell Street. Some of the one-storeys north of the Big Tree, on the opposite side, have been demolished and five storey buildings are going up in their place. They are pretty higgledy-piggledy looking though and presenting ugly gable walls as you come in from the airport.

  • #715847

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Yes I’ve been watching these going up with interest – rather odd looking development.

    Not sure what to make of the trees either. Certainly at night they add greatly to the area, to what is an otherwise dingy, soulless and featureless, sodium-lit urbanscape. Though in all honesty it’s more the injection of crisp white light into the area that is so refreshing – it makes the world of difference. Hopefully when all the new lampposts are installed the area will be transformed after dark.
    Otherwise I hope the trees don’t end up splitting the street in two – must take a walk along soon and get a feel for them. As the Corridor suggests, like everyone else I’m rarely out of the car on that route 🙁

    Good points made hutton regarding properties. At the end of the day it’s only public domain works that have taken place, and very very recently at that. Negligible improvement has happened on the property front. Most of it is still an 80s timewarp.
    I see the ghastly red ‘Golf Corner’ Georgian has had that notorious billboard removed recently, revealing a giant panel of stock brick 🙂
    The building is currently up for letting, so hopefully…

  • #715848

    ConK
    Participant

    Here is a map of the Dorset St/NCR from 1813 hand drawn by the Wide Street s Commision, I was hoping that a big tree would feature somewhere on the map.

  • #715849

    hutton
    Participant

    @conk wrote:

    Here is a map of the Dorset St/NCR from 1813 hand drawn by the Wide Street s Commision, I was hoping that a big tree would feature somewhere on the map.

    Nice one 🙂

    Do you have any more of those for this area, ie Mountjoy Square, Blessington St & Basin?

    One little thing that interests me, being a renowned symantic, is that “Belvedere” is spelt that way – as opposed to the “Belevidere” with an “i” that it has since been corrupted to in ref to this st.

  • #715850

    ConK
    Participant

    I don’t have any more of them. But they do exist. You can get to see them in the library on Pearse Street. It is very interesting. I wanted to see that one because I live in the field up from the big tree.

    On one of the other maps from 1810, which you can get in the RIA on Kildare St, has a Belvidere House in north county dublin. With that spelling.

    The Avenue in Dublin 1 has the two spellings on it, each with it’s own sign, facing each other on opposite sides of the street !!

  • #715851

    hutton
    Participant

    @conk wrote:

    I don’t have any more of them. But they do exist. You can get to see them in the library on Pearse Street. It is very interesting. I wanted to see that one because I live in the field up from the big tree.

    On one of the other maps from 1810, which you can get in the RIA on Kildare St, has a Belvidere House in north county dublin. With that spelling.

    The Avenue in Dublin 1 has the two spellings on it, each with it’s own sign, facing each other on opposite sides of the street !!

    Hi ConK, I was hoping to pm you regarding Dorset St & its environs, but I do not seem to be able to; by any chance could you pm me with your email address?

    Many thanks

    H

  • #715852

    notjim
    Participant

    @grahamh wrote:

    I see the ghastly red ‘Golf Corner’ Georgian has had that notorious billboard removed recently, revealing a giant panel of stock brick 🙂
    The building is currently up for letting, so hopefully…

    As if conjured up by your post, the pink georgian was scaffolded yesterday, a couple of months ago there was some small test poultices applied, so hopefully . . .

  • #715853

    jimg
    Participant

    Maybe it was the crisp winter light this morning but I thought the new median and trees look really good on Dorset St. Once the footpaths are redone – hopefully salvaging the old kerbstones – I think the street will have improved greatly. The median breaks the out-of-scale width of the street (in proportion with much of building stock). The aspects which make the street ugly may actually end up make it very attractive – a lack of historic coherence and the mismatch of scales and usage. Hopefully the improvements in the public fittings will be reflected by similar improvements in the private stock, a process that seems to have started already.

  • #715854

    phil
    Participant

    I agree Jimg. I was admiring it last night. It is a nicely done job. I also agree that the ‘mismatch of scales and usage’ is something positive about it as a street.

  • #715855

    ConK
    Participant

    Dorset Streets most famous son has a play in the Abbey at the moment.
    Richard Brinsley Sheridan. Born in 12 Dorset Street. Died 1816.

    It is a long time since an MP or TD was born on Dorset Street.

  • #715856

    hutton
    Participant

    @conk wrote:

    Dorset Streets most famous son has a play in the Abbey at the moment.
    Richard Brinsley Sheridan. Born in 12 Dorset Street. Died 1816.

    It is a long time since an MP or TD was born on Dorset Street.

    That it is – although the current encumbent of An Taoiseachs ofiice isnt from too far away 😉

    Just to add to the ConKs info, aside from Sheridan, according to John Cowells book (“Dublins famous people & where they lived”), the following also lived on the st at different points:

    Sean O’ Casey – 85 Upr D St, since a granite built bank

    Napper Tandy – radical member of the United Irishmen, no. 16

    Peader Kearney – 68 Lwr D St, songwriter of the national anthem and “Down by the glenside”, also an uncle of Brendan Behan.

    Sir John Pentland Mahaffy – Trinity Provost and ex-pal of Oscar Wilde; subsequently a later address of his at 38 Nth Gt Georges St has had a plaque put up on it.

    Aside from the st itself, there is a wide range of notable people who lived off and around it – Cowell’s book makes for a fascinating read and is available from O’ Brien press at about €12.

    🙂

  • #715857

    hutton
    Participant

    @THE PHOENIX MAGAZINE wrote:

    Saving Richard Brinsley Sheridan’s Home

    A “school for scandal” has emerged over plans to demolish the birthplace of playwright, Richard Brinsley Sheridan, at 12 Dorset Street Lower, where Shane Murphy with an address in Malahide, has lodged a planning application.

    Lodged on Friday December 22, Murphy’s scheme would level the Sheridan house and also the adjacent building, the disused Moy bar, to allow for the erection of a new complex of nine apartments on top of a commercial unit.

    Formerly a fine Georgian house of four floors over basement, Sheridan’s home stood intact close to the corner of Dominick Street until the 1980’s – during when the house was boarded up, the top two floors removed, and the plaque mysteriously disappeared. Since then, the building has sat empty alongside the Moy bar, which has also become disused.

    Unfortunately for Murphy, what remains of Sheridan’s house is listed in its entirety on the Record of Protected Structures, and this is likely to present difficulties for his scheme. Oddly he did not seek to have the building de-listed before applying for planing permission. Such applications are automatically referred to a number of prescribed bodies, including An Taisce.

    In the past there have been attempts by conservationists to save the building but the exact ownership proved elusive, with the Dominican Fathers being among those denying possession – although they did apply to put in a car park in the rear, back in 1993.

    Happily for all, the current application resolves such riddles, and so there has been an upsurge in activity. Helpful fellow that he is, Senator David Norris has lodged an objection noting all the expected reasons.

    Now that word is out, we might expect some coverage from the likes of Fintan O’Toole, who has published a well received biography on Sheridan. Or perhaps O’Toole has had enough of conservationist malarkey – given his own recent planning controversy?

    .

  • #715858

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Yes this poor little remnant is in a dismal state, with little other than a doorcase, a flanking window and part of the first floor still intact – the rear structure covered over with an enormous corrugated roof. The same has very recently been stuffed into the ground floor window, while the doorcase is filled from head to toe with breeze blocks: the sight of them squeezed up against the delicate capitals with splodges of cement would make you weep. Most of the railings and granite steps also survive. I hope we may have some pictures shortly.

    A similar application was also made in 2003 to demolish the house for apartments etc, but nothing seems to have come of it. I sure Mr Norris put up an eloquent defence 😉

  • #715859

    hutton
    Participant

    Developer makes play for Sheridan’s birthplace

    From The Irish Independent Sat, Feb 10 07

    A DEVELOPER plans to demolish the birthplace of 18th century playwright Richard Brinsley Sheridan and replace it with an apartment block.

    Planning permission has been sought from Dublin City Council by Shane Murphy, with an address at Malahide in Dublin, to demolish the playwright and Whig MP’s former home at 12 Upper Dorset Street. Mr Murphy wants to build nine apartments, including a luxury penthouse suite.

    A listed building, the house is currently in a dilapidated condition and two of the upper floors have been demolished. A conservation report attached to the planning application calls it an “eyesore”.

    As well as the apartments, there would be a retail unit at ground floor level, and the adjoining disused Moy pub will be demolished.

    Born in October 1751, Richard Brinsley Sheridan was the author of The School for Scandal (1777), considered to be among the greatest comedy of manners written in English.

    The application has been opposed by Senator David Norris, who said last night that a blue plaque signifying that the house had cultural merit had been placed on the building in the 1980s, but had since been removed and the upper floors demolished.

    “We have to draw a line somewhere,” he said. “We can’t go around putting plaques up and then demolishing the building. The facade could be retained and I think special consideration should be given to this house.”

    Senator Norris’ objection states it is “regrettable” that the Georgian building had been allowed fall into such a neglected state that the top two floors are missing.

    A decision from Dublin City Council is expected in the next two weeks.

    Paul Melia

  • #715860

    hutton
    Participant

    @Phoenix Magazine wrote:

    we might expect some coverage from the likes of Fintan O’Toole

    Irish Times? Unlikely – Its only Dublin City and on the northside :rolleyes:

  • #715861

    hutton
    Participant

    The analysis by Graham is as per usual spot on 🙁 . This snap is from a few months ago. The owner has since carried out works, as evident when one passes today, such as corrogated steel etc… Which throws up the question as to works carried out on a listed building. Hmmmm….

  • #715862

    manifesta
    Participant

    A look at the corrugated, er, improvements on the Sheridan building. Who is responsible?

    Back to the news coverage:

    @hutton wrote:

    Developer makes play for Sheridan’s birthplace

    From The Irish Independent Sat, Feb 10 07

    A DEVELOPER plans to demolish the birthplace of 18th century playwright Richard Brinsley Sheridan and replace it with an apartment block.

    Planning permission has been sought from Dublin City Council by Shane Murphy, with an address at Malahide in Dublin, to demolish the playwright and Whig MP’s former home at 12 Upper Dorset Street. Mr Murphy wants to build nine apartments, including a luxury penthouse suite.

    A listed building, the house is currently in a dilapidated condition and two of the upper floors have been demolished. A conservation report attached to the planning application calls it an “eyesore”.

    I’m disturbed by the suggestion in the article that it’s okay to demolish a building because, after all, a conservation report dubbed it an ‘eyesore’. I’m sure the conservation report had more to say on the subject, and perhaps it even bothered to list some of the architectural merits of the building… not the least of which is that this is on the Record of Protected Structures. But alas, such limited space in the Irish Times!

    You have to wonder if such ‘improvements’ as the corrugated steel were made to make this building even more of an eyesore. Because apparently, it’s an appropriate conservation practice to just tear something down the worse it looks.

  • #715863

    phil
    Participant

    Good points Manifesta. I was also worried by the mention of facade retention by Senator Norris. I don’t want to harp on about this too much as my views on it have been expressed again and again so are probably boring people to death, but the more people concede on only retaining the facade of buildings of note, the more we will actually lose in the long run.

  • #715864

    DJM
    Participant

    In my opinion, facade retention is acceptable in only very few cases, and in this instance it would be somewhat futile. It´s often carried out by greedy developers aided by the ignorance of planning officials. In this case however there may be arguements for facade retention, and possibly full demolition.

    Perhaps the idea of facade retention was mentioned in light of the fact that little or nothing remains within the shell? If that´s the case then, is it to be restored? (which given the current condition would be economically unrealistic) Rebuilding a new structure behind the facade may be the only realistic proposal in this case, whereby facade retention becomes an option.

    But given the limited amount of original material that would be retained, and considering the necessary rebuilding of a substantial part of the facade and the addition of a new roof, doors and fenestration, facade retention is of questionable merit in this case and a valid arguement for full demolition could in theory be made.

  • #715865

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Indeed it could, but it must be noted that should a retention be made, it would involve much more than the meagre substance that the term ‘facade retention’ implies – in this case, from what can be gathered, all four walls of the building still stand, not just a remnant of the front elevation. We also don’t know the extent of original fabric to interior, but it’s fair to assume that given it’s roofed over, there’s at least something of merit inside.

    There are quite a few examples of attic storey rebuilds about the city (I can’t think of them offhand), a method that has saved many townhouses from demolition or at best from botched restoration jobs. Whilst a 1.5 storey rebuild is probably in order in this case, it’s largely fair to assume these upper floors to be the least architecturally and historically significant parts of the house. Indeed even if the building had been habitable, one would have to question just how much original fabric would have been retained organically up there as bedsits or studio flats; the reality is that even most of the houses of Merrion Square have virtually nothing of interest or indeed probably of original fabric in their uppermost floors. Please feel free to pick holes in this strain of argument.

    This is also not a case of a low-rise rebuild preventing the ‘densifying’ of the inner city: a four storey over basement house of substantial floorplates along with neighbouring new-build infill is more than an acceptable outcome.

    I genuinely agree that if little other than a low front elevation remains, in most cases it ought not impede on the wider improvement of an area, but with the substantial fabric still intact here, along with the strong historical and literary connections, a valid case can be made for structural retention – a more apt term I think.

  • #715866

    hutton
    Participant

    Looks as if Goldhawk/ Phoenix was on the money about O’Toole afterall. But where was he when objections were being lodged; permission has already been granted (on the 8th) to whack the house. The scheme is a monstrosity and will be comparable to that other close-by delightful development on Henrietta St which DCC was so enlightened in giving the go ahead to.

    There isn’t even a set of photos of no 12 in the “conservation” report – and yet there are 2 red-herring sets of the Moy bar; FFS. For anybody wanting a textbook lesson in ruthless development, this is it.

    Well done DCC you have outdone yourselves in letting the north inner city get shat on – again 😡

    The Irish Times Saturday 16th February 2007

    Build them up and knock them down
    Fintan O’Toole

    Culture Shock: We use our great writers as a unique selling point, but we can’t even be bothered to preserve the houses they lived in.

    Recently, when the Abbey Theatre staged Richard Brinsley Sheridan’s great comedy The School for Scandal, even its management was taken aback by the popularity of the production. Over the last 20 years, only around half a dozen Abbey productions have managed to sell 550 seats or more every night of their run. The School for Scandal, along with such huge hits as The Shaughraun and Dancing at Lughnasa, was one of them. This success, though, was not, on a long view, all that surprising. The School, along with Sheridan’s first play The Rivals, are the only 18th-century plays that still hold a place in the international English-language repertoire. Given any kind of decent production (and the Abbey’s was more than decent), their energy, their vividness, their linguistic invention and their rich characterisations still get through to audiences.

    It says something about the fecklessness of Irish cultural memory, however, that just as the Abbey was putting Sheridan back in an Irish context, permission has been granted to demolish the house, 10 minutes walk from the theatre, where Sheridan was born in 1751. That house, 12 Dorset Street, is saturated with Irish theatrical and literary history. Sheridan’s father, Thomas, was one of the greatest Irish actors of his age and, as manager of Smock Alley theatre, a revolutionary figure in the development of theatre here. It was Thomas who, at the cost of riots and ultimate ruin, insisted on the professional dignity of actors by removing audience members from the stage and refusing to repeat speeches on demand in the course of a performance. Sheridan’s mother, Frances, is easily the most important Irish woman writer of the 18th century, a pioneer of the epistolary novel and a considerable playwright whose A Trip to Bath was a huge influence on her son’s work.

    Sheridan himself, though he left Ireland at the age of 11 and never returned, was a self-consciously, even insistently, Irish figure. In the course of his long political career, he campaigned for Irish independence, developed ties with the United Irishmen, devoted himself to the cause of Catholic emancipation, spoke out against the abuse of Irish political prisoners, and conceived an idea that would have a huge bearing on Irish history after his death – the notion of an Irish party in the Westminster parliament. He was regarded in his time as a great adornment to Irish national pride, not least for his sensational speeches against the governor of India, Warren Hastings, which are milestones in the development of international human rights law.

    The idea that Sheridan’s birthplace should be preserved has been around for at least 50 years now. In 1956, for example, the Longford-Westmeath deputy, Frank Carter, raised the issue in the D

  • #715867

    aj
    Participant

    @hutton wrote:

    Looks as if Goldhawk/ Phoenix was on the money about O’Toole afterall. But where was he when objections were being lodged]There isn’t even a set of photos of no 12 in the “conservation” report – and yet there are 2 red-herring sets of the Moy bar; FFS. For anybody wanting a textbook lesson in ruthless development, this is it.[/B]

    Well done DCC you have outdone yourselves in letting the north inner city get shat on – again 😡

    The Irish Times Saturday 16th February 2007

    Build them up and knock them down
    Fintan O’Toole

    Culture Shock: We use our great writers as a unique selling point, but we can’t even be bothered to preserve the houses they lived in.

    Recently, when the Abbey Theatre staged Richard Brinsley Sheridan’s great comedy The School for Scandal, even its management was taken aback by the popularity of the production. Over the last 20 years, only around half a dozen Abbey productions have managed to sell 550 seats or more every night of their run. The School for Scandal, along with such huge hits as The Shaughraun and Dancing at Lughnasa, was one of them. This success, though, was not, on a long view, all that surprising. The School, along with Sheridan’s first play The Rivals, are the only 18th-century plays that still hold a place in the international English-language repertoire. Given any kind of decent production (and the Abbey’s was more than decent), their energy, their vividness, their linguistic invention and their rich characterisations still get through to audiences.

    It says something about the fecklessness of Irish cultural memory, however, that just as the Abbey was putting Sheridan back in an Irish context, permission has been granted to demolish the house, 10 minutes walk from the theatre, where Sheridan was born in 1751. That house, 12 Dorset Street, is saturated with Irish theatrical and literary history. Sheridan’s father, Thomas, was one of the greatest Irish actors of his age and, as manager of Smock Alley theatre, a revolutionary figure in the development of theatre here. It was Thomas who, at the cost of riots and ultimate ruin, insisted on the professional dignity of actors by removing audience members from the stage and refusing to repeat speeches on demand in the course of a performance. Sheridan’s mother, Frances, is easily the most important Irish woman writer of the 18th century, a pioneer of the epistolary novel and a considerable playwright whose A Trip to Bath was a huge influence on her son’s work.

    Sheridan himself, though he left Ireland at the age of 11 and never returned, was a self-consciously, even insistently, Irish figure. In the course of his long political career, he campaigned for Irish independence, developed ties with the United Irishmen, devoted himself to the cause of Catholic emancipation, spoke out against the abuse of Irish political prisoners, and conceived an idea that would have a huge bearing on Irish history after his death – the notion of an Irish party in the Westminster parliament. He was regarded in his time as a great adornment to Irish national pride, not least for his sensational speeches against the governor of India, Warren Hastings, which are milestones in the development of international human rights law.

    The idea that Sheridan’s birthplace should be preserved has been around for at least 50 years now. In 1956, for example, the Longford-Westmeath deputy, Frank Carter, raised the issue in the Dáil, citing “certain houses . . . which could and should be preserved”. He listed three in particular: the homes of the 1916 Rising leader Thomas Clarke, the 19th-century nationalist John Mitchel, and Sheridan’s birthplace. “A move should be made, preferably voluntary, if people were sufficiently civic-minded, to preserve those buildings, but if a move is not made voluntarily, then steps should be taken by the State, even in a small way, to preserve these famous buildings.”

    Some small moves were eventually made. The house was listed for preservation. A blue plaque was erected on the front wall in the early 1970s by Dublin Tourism. Bizarrely, however, the plaque was removed soon afterwards. While blue plaques adorn numerous buildings where Sheridan lived in London and Bath, Dublin has the unique distinction of having actually removed one. The obliteration of the house’s historical significance seems to have been a deliberate prelude to its eventual destruction.

    For many years now, it has been nothing more than a semi-derelict shell with bricked-up windows and no roof. In another bizarre twist, number 12 and number 13 Dorset Street came to be distinguished, not as landmarks, but as eyesores. A Bord Pleanála inspection report on proposals to demolish number 13 noted of the two houses that “they stand out in the streetscape. In their current state, they detract from the amenity of the area.” In 50 years, Sheridan’s house had gone, in official discourse, from a “famous building” to an infamous one.

    Does any of this matter? At an economic level, it probably does. Dublin is sold to visitors as a literary and theatrical city, and the authorities are busily attaching literary associations even to structures which have no previous connection to James Joyce, Sean O’Casey or Samuel Beckett, all of whom have new Liffey bridges named after them. Yet Dorset Street, on which two of the greatest dramatists in the English language, O’Casey and Sheridan, were born within a few hundred metres of each other, makes less than nothing of its genuine historical associations. This seems perversely wasteful.

    More importantly, though, the likely demolition of Sheridan’s birthplace implies a neurotic disconnection from the lived reality of our cultural heritage. Writers can be fetishised in the streetscape by sticking their resonant names on bridges, pubs, hotels or industrial estates. But their actual lives, the things that locate them in time and place, are not worth remembering.

    © 2007 The Irish Times

    Its is sad to see yet another demolition of whatis potentailly a fine Georgian mansion on the northside… it becomes heartbreaking given its significance. I was walking around North Georgian Dublin last week and not was genuinely amazed at the quality of some of the buildings…. i was even more surprised as to the state of most of them..

    is there any chance that someone in Government will have the balls to take on the developers and landlords who let magnificent buildings rot?

  • #715868

    manifesta
    Participant
    hutton wrote:
    Looks as if Goldhawk/ Phoenix was on the money about O’Toole afterall. But where was he when objections were being lodged]

    Thanks for posting this, hutton. Agreed. O’Toole’s article on the Sheridan house makes for a nice eulogy, but it would have made a better protest song.

    So the Record of Protected Structures: legally binding or just a polite suggestion? It seems easy enough, as we’ve all seen, to steamroll right over it. Why is this so?

    It raises the question– on perhaps a grander scale– of what the role of public protest is over buildings and space, whether protected or unprotected. Why the formal fee to object? The implication that money buys influence is certainly in keeping with the way most of the world works, but it doesn’t make it right. Though on the bright side, it does make corruption easier to spot (we can all think of those infamous projects that lodge dozens of planning applications, hoping to make it completely cost-prohibitive to object). But really, why?

    And in terms of forums (like newspapers, like this discussion board) that encourage the so-called free exchange of opinion, one has to wonder. Does whistle-blowing without the proper authority to enforce ever have an impact? If so, what are some of the success stories and more importantly, why do we think they worked? And whether an earlier O’Toole article would actually have had influence over the DCC’s decision– I’d like to think this is the case, however idealistic. It’s the least a writer can do in the world.

  • #715869

    GrahamH
    Participant

    Also, how is it that permission can be granted by a LA for the demolition of a Protected Structure without it being formally delisted? Whatever about alterations to a PS being included in a general application, surely the wholescale demolition of such a structure ought to be subject to a separate delisting application, and not merely a throwaway element of a broader development proposal?

    Some of the conditions to the demolition include:

    12. A copy of the survey drawings of the existing building and Conservation Report shall be submitted to the Irish Architectural Archive, prior to the commencement of development. Reason: In the interest of historical recording and research. [what about photographs?]

    7. A plaque, of appropriate size and design, shall be erected on the front elevation of the proposed structure at ground floor level, reflecting the historical significance of the site as the birthplace of Richard Sheridan, dramatist. The applicants shall consult with the Conservation Officer in this regard, prior to the commencement of any works on site. Reason: In the interests of historical recording.

    Presumably this is going to be appealed.

  • #715870

    J. Seerski
    Participant

    Amid all the doom and gloom there are glimmers of enlightened enterprise. No. 1 Synnott Place was painted red for the past 20 years or more and was horribly defaced by advertising hoardings as well as being in a state of neglect. The recent restoration of this building has brought some hope to an area that, while improving, seemed to have lost its heritage in its quest to tidy itself up.

    This building is a beacon in an area that has such beauties as George Cosgrave Car Sales building (horriffic is the word!) and the emasculation of some fine georgian palaces near the Nth Fredrick Street end (there is one fine five-bay mansion that merits investigation, given its size and bulk it must have been a notable address – it is beside the shx coffe shop).

    I do agree with facades being preserved and or re-instated, if only for reference sake to how the area once was. Moreso, it would re-inforce the importance of the existing housing stock that is already extant.

    J.

  • #715871

    Anonymous

    About a year ago I posted a query aboutr “An Stad”, a very run down ‘B&B’ on North Frederick Street. It didn’t whet anyone’s quodlibet. Seeing as you’re discussing ‘up the street’, I’d be really glad to know more of the background of this large Georgian with dim dangling lightbulbs, tatty faux lace curtains and the pain of shattered panes

  • #715872

    notjim
    Participant

    J. Seerski, the formerly pink/red georgian looks very fine, two other georgians on Synott place are being renovated. Wonder what effect the changes to the big tree will have on the look of this area, the pub itself is being reduced in size back to the georgian building and, I think, an extra story added, or restored, as is claimed.

  • #715873

    hutton
    Participant

    @lunasa wrote:

    About a year ago I posted a query aboutr “An Stad”, a very run down ‘B&B’ on North Frederick Street. It didn’t whet anyone’s quodlibet. Seeing as you’re discussing ‘up the street’, I’d be really glad to know more of the background of this large Georgian with dim dangling lightbulbs, tatty faux lace curtains and the pain of shattered panes

    Might it this be the one (with the broken window) –

    If so, you are in luck in so far as I understand that the owners might be willing to consider offers. 😉

    Shame about its current state – its probably worthy of inclusion in the “Endangered Georgian Dublin” thread 🙁

    Somewhat undestated entrance – a Georgian townhouse with the doorway with only a hint of the brackets that would fully trumpet in the Regency era. And a little bit of the house’s history as well…
    No 20 – “An Stad” – Used by Michael Collins (1890 – 1922); Irish Freedom Fighter and Signatory to the 1921 Anglo – Irish Treaty as a “safe house” during The War of Independence. See also Mountjoy Street, Mountjoy Square and Great Denmark Street for further connections with Collins.

    Hope thats of help 🙂

    Im sure DCC can revisit here to stick in some more unsuitable poles and visual shitage :rolleyes:

  • #715874

    GrahamH
    Participant

    A closer shot of the medallion/frieze detail:

    The brickwork looks like it was all replaced in the 70s along with those dodgy windows – yet the brickwork has an oddly old quality to it too… Clearly something was done given only part of the frieze has been cleaned. It’s probably just the contrast of this uncleaned old brick with the cleaned house next door.

    And just as a minor aside, the lamppost across the road at the entrance to Hardwicke Street has the original green paint exposing itself 🙂

    Yes fantastic news about No. 1 Synnott Place, or perhaps more commmonly known as the red ‘Golf Corner’. Saw it there a few weeks ago and the newly exposed stock brick looks great; it changes the entire tone of this part of Dorset Street and junction here. The brickwork’s a bit patchy, but hey it adds to the charm. I hope to get pics soon.

  • #715875

    Anonymous

    Re: An Stad
    Thanks Hutton. Any hint as to who this Hibernian Rackman might be.

  • #715876

    hutton
    Participant

    @lunasa wrote:

    Re: An Stad
    Thanks Hutton. Any hint as to who this Hibernian Rackman might be.

    Your welcome 🙂

    Its not quite a rackman situation – its more a sorry story about the house belonging to a number in a family who havent been able to agree what to do with it (apart from sale of rere 2-3 years ago). Although one of the family has been living there, there is little money, and none of the siblings were willing or able to spend money on it. Was run as a guest house, but all things considered, I get the impression that times have been tough…So not quite a Rackman story. Anyhow it is my understanding that agreement has been reached to release the house onto the open market – so hopefully it’ll all work out.

    Thats good new about Synott Place – and there is also another Georgian on that row also undergoing what would appear to be a good quality restoration 🙂

    However…

    Apologies for pissing on the parade, but just behind the Synott Place houses is 422 North Circular Road, where the author and playwright, Sean O’ Casey (1880 -1964) lived until 1926 after having moved here from 35 Mountjoy Square in 1918. The house is being let fall into a desperate state – broken windows etc; there is a real and definate danger that it could become another Sheridan house fiasco; it becomes run down, corrugated metal gets tacked on – and an application goes in to replace the “eyesore”:rolleyes: 🙁
    Among the plays O’ Casey wrote in 422 was “The Plough and the Stars”, while his other works “The Shadow of a Gunman”, is based on 35 Mountjoy Square. Subsequently he emigrated to London; for more connections on O’ Casey in the area see Dorset Street (building replaced), Innisfallen Parade, and the West house at 20 Dominick Street Lower (well-known for rococco plaster work), and 35 Mountjoy Square (replica facade).

  • #715877

    notjim
    Participant

    I pass this house every day, it is a crying shame. The problem is it is so big, one of the biggest houses in the area and clearly anyone who could afford to buy and renovate it isn’t interested in living around here. Also, there is no garden, obviously the only thing that could happen is that someone turn it into high end apartments and, again, this area isn’t up enough to support that. It isn’t a bad area, just not a posh one. Something needs to be done soon though for 422, it is deterioating by the day.

  • #715878

    ConK
    Participant

    I was surprised by the quality of the conservation report recently conducted for a 3 storey over basement house on Sherrard Street, just off Belvedere Road, near Dorset Street. But the house had been burnt so I guess it was safe enough to do a good conservation report. It is too big to attach. You can nagivate to it, 20 pages with pictures conservation report of the Dublin City website. Planning number : 4154/05

    The question above about the photos for the Brinsley Sheridan Birthplace; in this application number 4154/05 (also a geo. house north inner City); one of the conditions was

    Note: The applicant is advised that this is an application for proposed development to a Protected Structure (within the of the Planning and Development Act, 2000). The planning application must be accompanied – by such photographs, plans and other particulars as are necessary to show how the development would affect the character of the structure, – as required under Article 23 (2) of the Planning and Development Regulations, 2001. A Conservation Method Statement/written report must be submitted which gives a brief description of the proposal and outlines the rationale and justification of the development and also state how it has been designed to have regard to the character of the main dwelling which is a protected structure.

    Also there has bee a great renovation of a 3 bay Geo. house at 9 Buckingham Street, Dublin 1. Converted into multiple residential units – as nothing else would work here.

  • #715879

    GregF
    Participant

    @manifesta wrote:

    A look at the corrugated, er, improvements on the Sheridan building. Who is responsible?

    Back to the news coverage:

    I’m disturbed by the suggestion in the article that it’s okay to demolish a building because, after all, a conservation report dubbed it an ‘eyesore’. I’m sure the conservation report had more to say on the subject, and perhaps it even bothered to list some of the architectural merits of the building… not the least of which is that this is on the Record of Protected Structures. But alas, such limited space in the Irish Times!

    You have to wonder if such ‘improvements’ as the corrugated steel were made to make this building even more of an eyesore. Because apparently, it’s an appropriate conservation practice to just tear something down the worse it looks.

    Gas how ‘Developers’ are just generally culturally ignorant bastards. This building stood here without even a placque to signify Sheridan’s association. The Council has to be blamed too. Another part of the old city and history lost.

  • #715880

    GregF
    Participant

    I remember someone posted photos of this area and how great it once looked years ago prior to the vandalism. Its streetscapes were intact with the red brick houses and the doric or ionic columned classical building standing on the corner which was to be replaced in time by the awful concrete block cinema (later, the waxwoks museum). It is really a nightmare the way this whole area has turned out. The waxworks is now gone with the replacement appartment block soon to be revealed. Refering to the recent photo above, look how bad the toytown appartments are to Sheridans terraced house. There was no effort to continue the uniform line of the street.

    Joyce’s house of ‘The Dead’ on the quays was rightfully restored and so should this, else we will have fuck all left of cultural and historical note in certain parts of the city.

  • #715881

    urbanisto
    Participant

    The new scheme at the corner of Dorset and Granby Row is actually an hotel. I havent seen any images of it but my guess is the standard design coming through with new builds in the city recently. I think I remember the initial proposals were shot down by DCC due to the sensitive nature of the site as a key part of the north Georgian core and the emerging cutural quarter around Parnell Square.

    I must further down Dorset Street the new streetworks look great. It really gives the whole street a lift.

  • #715882

    hutton
    Participant

    @gregf wrote:

    It is really a nightmare the way this whole area has turned out. The waxworks is now gone with the replacement appartment block soon to be revealed….Joyce’s house of ‘The Dead’ on the quays was rightfully restored and so should this, else we will have fuck all left of cultural and historical note in certain parts of the city.

    Spot on.

    Here’s the proposed development – wholly inappropriate imo given the proximity of the “protected” structure opposite, and also dwarfing the “protected” ecclesiastical structures adjacent – which are part of a conservation area. Bulk and scale is remarkable – a full three floors above the parapet level of the adjacent LA terrace, ie twice as high]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w108/hutton001/Dorsetproposeddev2.jpg[/IMG]

    And again – this time the frontal elevation with the dotted line indicating the existing structures, with the area centre-right (no 12) still listed as a “protected” structure:

    So the application has no interior photos of no. 12 in the “conservation” report, would demolish one listed structure, significantly and detrimentally impact 2 others, and its only in the last few months that the current owner has barricaded the front door with corrugated metal. Yet applied for during Christmas week, DCC had permission granted by Valentines Day – thats efficiency for you :rolleyes:

    So DCC remind me again just WTF “Protected Structure” actually means 😡

  • #715883

    hutton
    Participant

    And just to remind people – not that most need or want it – of that other recent “regeneration” permitted by DCC, not 200 yards away – the Henrietta Hag

  • #715884

    manifesta
    Participant

    Is the Sheridan house going to be demolished tomorrow? Wasn’t the 8th the day of the chopping block or has some angel of infinite mercy and reason swooped down overnight and convinced the DCC to halt this?

    I’d say it’d be worth going in overnight and doing a salvage job the way they saved the door of 7 Eccles Street (from Ulysses fame) back before it was wrecked to make way for the hospital, only what’s left to salvage– a hunk of corrugated metal? They couldn’t even bother to keep the plaque.

    Regarding the proposed development for 12-13 Dorset Street, it’s nice to see the DCC’s henchmen, Insult and Injury getting on so well. Apparently they decided to come out of hiding from their HQ in the Henrietta Hag and this was their sick idea for a follow-upper. Hate to see what’s next on the hit list. Probably another Protected Structure.

  • #715885

    hutton
    Participant

    @manifesta wrote:

    Is the Sheridan house going to be demolished tomorrow? Wasn’t the 8th the day of the chopping block or has some angel of infinite mercy and reason swooped down overnight and convinced the DCC to halt this?

    I’d say it’d be worth going in overnight and doing a salvage job the way they saved the door of 7 Eccles Street (from Ulysses fame) back before it was wrecked to make way for the hospital, only what’s left to salvage– a hunk of corrugated metal? They couldn’t even bother to keep the plaque.

    Regarding the proposed development for 12-13 Dorset Street, it’s nice to see the DCC’s henchmen, Insult and Injury getting on so well. Apparently they decided to come out of hiding from their HQ in the Henrietta Hag and this was their sick idea for a follow-upper. Hate to see what’s next on the hit list. Probably another Protected Structure.

    Where did you hear it was to be demolished???

    Appeals have already been lodged with the bord on this – so surely any such move would be contempt of BP and wholly illegal.

    *watching space with interest*…

  • #715886

    GregF
    Participant

    @hutton wrote:

    Where did you hear it was to be demolished???

    Appeals have already been lodged with the bord on this – so surely any such move would be contempt of BP and wholly illegal.

    *watching space with interest*…

    This is a case well worth appealing.

    Becuse he may not be as fashionable today as Joyce, Sheridan’s house, ruin and all as it is should not be wiped away. Everything should be done to keep and restore it as a historical and cultural marker for the city.

  • #715887

    manifesta
    Participant

    Oh, I see I’ve created unneccesary panic again. Don’t listen to me, I’m just a classic example of what happens when modifiers mix and a glass-half-empty mind takes over. I read hutton’s post:

    @hutton wrote:

    permission has already been granted (on the 8th) to whack the house.

    and saw this: (on the 8th) = whack the house
    instead of this: permission has already been granted = (on the 8th)

    The record will likely show that planning permission to knock the site was granted on the 8th of Feb, not that (as I assumed) the site is going to be demolished on the 8th of March. If someone passes by the throng of weeping Sheridan acolytes/protesters on their way home from work, please tell them I’m sorry. They can unchain themselves from the building for now.

  • #715888

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Redevelopment of Richard Brinsley Sheridan’s house appealed
    The Irish Times

    Dublin City Council has failed in its duty to protect a symbol of Irish cultural achievement by approving plans to demolish the birthplace of 18th century playwright Richard Brinsley Sheridan, according to Senator David Norris. Last month the council granted permission to Shane Murphy for the demolition of the Whig MP’s home at 12 Upper Dorset Street to make way for an apartment block. The building is in a derelict condition and is missing its top two floors. Murphy bought number 12 six months ago and number 13 an adjoining property, which will also be demolished, a year ago.

    http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/0322/1173880692811.html

  • #715889

    aj
    Participant

    @paul Clerkin wrote:

    Redevelopment of Richard Brinsley Sheridan’s house appealed
    The Irish Times

    Dublin City Council has failed in its duty to protect a symbol of Irish cultural achievement by approving plans to demolish the birthplace of 18th century playwright Richard Brinsley Sheridan, according to Senator David Norris. Last month the council granted permission to Shane Murphy for the demolition of the Whig MP’s home at 12 Upper Dorset Street to make way for an apartment block. The building is in a derelict condition and is missing its top two floors. Murphy bought number 12 six months ago and number 13 an adjoining property, which will also be demolished, a year ago.

    http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/0322/1173880692811.html

    yet another disgrace.. I am certain that the Corpo have given up trying to protect whats left of the North Georgian Inner City

  • #715890

    GregF
    Participant

    This is bad! Th northside of the city has been decimated over the years and this decision doesn’t help. At least a placque should be placed on what ever is concocted here to mark Sheridan’s birthplace and house.

  • #715891

    Anonymous

    What’s the point of a plaque? If his home isn’t worth preserving, them maybe we should just rate him as forgettable.

  • #715892

    ctesiphon
    Participant

    Wasn’t there already a plaque that was removed? So apparently not even the original plaque was worth preserving… 🙁

  • #715893

    Anonymous
    Participant

    An Bord Pleanala case details for 222271
    Demolition of no. 12(a protected structure) and no. 13 Upper Dorset Street and construction of 6 storey mixed use development comprising retail use and 9 apartments and all ancillary works. 12/13 Dorset Street Upper, Dublin 1.
    Lodged: 06/03/2007
    Party 1: Shane Murphy*()
    Party 2: Senator David Norris*(Appellant)
    Party 3: An Taisce*(Appellant)
    Party 4: St. Saviours Dominican Priory*(Appellant)
    Party 5: Aids Fund Housing Project*(Appellant)
    EIS: No
    Issue Code 1: Protected Structure
    Planning Authority: Dublin City Council Reg. Ref.: 6907/06
    Case is due to be decided by 09-07-2007

  • #715894

    aj
    Participant

    @Sloan wrote:

    An Bord Pleanala case details for 222271
    Demolition of no. 12(a protected structure) and no. 13 Upper Dorset Street and construction of 6 storey mixed use development comprising retail use and 9 apartments and all ancillary works. 12/13 Dorset Street Upper, Dublin 1.
    Lodged: 06/03/2007
    Party 1: Shane Murphy*()
    Party 2: Senator David Norris*(Appellant)
    Party 3: An Taisce*(Appellant)
    Party 4: St. Saviours Dominican Priory*(Appellant)
    Party 5: Aids Fund Housing Project*(Appellant)
    EIS: No
    Issue Code 1: Protected Structure
    Planning Authority: Dublin City Council Reg. Ref.: 6907/06
    Case is due to be decided by 09-07-2007

    lets all object !

  • #715895

    ConK
    Participant

    I’ve objected already . Permission was granted by the idiots in Dublin City Planning. But it costs over €200 to appeal it to An Bord Pleannala. So that’s where I gave up.

  • #715896

    archipimp
    Participant

    whats the point of putting buildings on the protected structures list if some developer can just come along and knock them as usual!?

  • #715897

    lostexpectation
    Participant

    is this this place

    Heritage group calls for repeal of monuments Act
    Tim O’Brien

    Irish Times
    Thursday, May 17, 2007

    Leading academics and archaeologists yesterday launched the Heritage
    Protection Alliance, to campaign for repeal of the National Monuments
    Act 2004.

    The alliance identified 16 sites island-wide, including three in the
    Taoiseach’s constituency, which it says are inadequately protected. It
    claims the 2004 Act provides for the destruction rather than
    preservation of such sites.

    Included in the list is the home of Richard Brinsley Sheridan, which
    the alliance pointed out was referred to by Taoiseach Bertie Ahern in
    his address at Westminster on Tuesday.

    Commenting on the number of Irishmen who had links with Westminster, Mr
    Ahern said: “Not the least of those Richard Brinsley Sheridan, who
    served in this House, was born in Dorset Street in my constituency and
    is now buried nearby in Poets Corner at Westminster Abbey.” Brinsley
    Sheridan’s birthplace is currently the subject of an application for
    demolition.

    The past ten years have seen an unprecedented number of sites being
    subjected to unnecessary destruction, according to the alliance which
    includes Prof Donnchadh Ó Corráin, Dr David Edwards, Dr Muireann Ní
    Bhrolcháin, Dr Pádraig Lenihan, Rev Brian Kennaway and Senator David
    Norris.

    They concluded “that Irish archaeology and protection given to heritage
    is in crisis”.

    In a statement, the new alliance said: “During the past 10 years over
    10,000 sites of archaeological potential have been investigated in the
    Republic of Ireland under licence to the Department of the Environment
    and Heritage. Approximately 70 per cent of these sites have tested
    ‘archaeologically positive’, a phenomenal number by any standards. To
    put this number in perspective, it should be recalled that in 1989 a
    mere 101 sites were excavated.”

  • #715898

    GregF
    Participant

    I thought the very same when I heard Bertie refer to where Sheridan was born.

    If those who were listening to Bertie’s speech in the magnificant OTT chamber could only see the appalling state of Sheridan’s former home and locality today. It’s an embarassment the condition of this area of the city.

  • #715899

    Anonymous
    Participant

    well at least its increased awareness …
    got a good mention yesterday evening on drivetime, mark clinton from An T was on.
    not up online yet.

  • #715900

    Anonymous
    Participant

    [/QUOTE]

    In his address at Westminster last Tuesday, when commenting on the number of Irishmen who had links with Westminster, our Taoiseach said:

    Bertie Ahern: “Not the least of those Richard Brinsley Sheridan, who served in this House, was born in Dorset Street in my constituency and is now buried nearby in Poets Corner at Westminster Abbey.”

  • #715901

    Anonymous
    Participant

    An Bord Pleanala Appeal Ref No. 222271 (re demolition of No.12 (Protected Structure) & 13 Upper Dorset St.)

    There is a new objective date set for deciding this appeal by 23 Aug 2007

  • #715902

    Anonymous
    Participant

    So what think ye of this ?

    Richard Brinsley Sheridan wasn’t born here
    Sunday Independent

    The preservation of 12 Dorset Street, the birthplace of Richard Brinsley Sheridan and one of the great cause’s celebres of the conservation movement, was a costly farce. It can now be revealed that the great playwright was born somewhere else.

    Sheridan’s birthplace in the north inner-city was mentioned by the Taoiseach in his historic address at Westminster and threats to the preservation of this birthplace provoked furious protests by Senator David Norris, An Taisce and biographer Fintan O’Toole.

    Even An Bord Pleanala got involved citing 12 Dorset Street’s “historical importance” last month as they slapped down a developer who planned to demolish the listed building.

    But now it can be revealed the hullabaloo over the preservation puts Sheridan’s great comedy of manners School for Scandal in the ha’penny place.

    Meticulous research carried out by leading historians based on Trinity College, seen by the SINDO proves conclusively the house was never owned by the Sheridan family and the playwright couldn’t have been born at 12 Dorset Street.

    And the historians discovered in further research that the great writer, duelist and Whig politician was almost certainly born in a nearby house demolished in 1885 by the Dominican Order to make way for St. Saviour’s Convent. His real birthplace no longer exists.

    For Malahide developer Shane Murphy, the stunning evidence may mean a huge payday. Mr Murphy’s original plan to build a six-storey apartment complex on the site he bought last year can now be resurrected. But the findings also suggest that the relentless campaign by conservationists and the literati to save Sheridan’s birthplace has been an absurd charade based on uncorroborated research.

    Eneclann Ltd, the award winning Trinity College campus company, was commissioned by a private client five years ago to explore whether Sheridan was born at 12 Dorset Street, as claimed in recent biographies by Fintan O’Toole in 1999 and Linda Kelly two years earlier.

    The 18 page report by Eneclann found the false assumption about Sheridan’s birthplace came about because of different numbering systems for the street dating back more than 150 years ago. Sheridan was born in 1751 and the historians found that numbers were not assigned to Dorset Street Upper until the 1770’s 20 years after Sheridan’s birth.

    Crucially, from the 1770s to 1848 there were some changes in the numbering system. After 1848, the numbers were permanently fixed as they are today.

    The research found the house recorded as No. 12 (Sheridan’s birthplace) in the first half of the 19th century would not correspond to the same house today. Researchers found an early deed for the house currently known as no. 12 Dorset Street Upper dated 1783 and records a lease on the property between Joseph Ellis & John Smithy. At this time, the property was recorded as No. 10 Dorset Street.

    What they did discover was that Thomas Sheridan, Richard’s father, held a lease on an adjoining property what is no 12 Dorset Street. They are convinced that the actual Sheridan house was one of those purchased by the Dominican Order around August 1883, which were subsequently demolished to build St. Saviour’s Priory…

    If this is true, (you wouldn’t know given the level of drivel that the Sunday Indo publish as a matter of course), it makes the case for retention / restoration of No. 12 less compelling – but only given the reality of its decrepit state at the hands of consecutive owners & ultimately DCC inaction.

    However, regardless of what stands there now & the controversy that goes with it, it doesn’t take away from the fact that what was proposed for this site was and still is utter, out of scale, cheap crap – well in line with its recently constructed sisters up the street.

    Whatever happens, Mr. Murphy’s proposal is not appropriate for this site. In the wake of a belated ABP refusal on grounds of aesthetics/design at the Hickey’s site, let’s see them stick their collective heads above the parapet once again & save Dorset Street from yet another profit driven affliction.

  • #715903

    hutton
    Participant

    @peter FitzPatrick wrote:

    However, regardless of what stands there now & the controversy that goes with it, it doesn’t take away from the fact that what was proposed for this site was and still is utter, out of scale, cheap crap – well in line with its recently constructed sisters up the street….Whatever happens, Mr. Murphy’s proposal is not appropriate for this site.

    Agreed. Another bargain-land block like that on Granby Row/ Dorset St corner or the horror at the bottom of Henrietta St (also on the same axis) should not be let happen again. Afaik there was no case made by Murphy that the house wasn’t the birthplace, ie he didn’t outline “the exceptional circumstances” as required by the act, and instead willfully set about replacing what he believed was the Sheridan house with this –


    An ignorant application that if it had been permitted, would have been perfectly at home with the substandard dross down the road at Henrietta St corner –

    …and also up the road at Granby Row –

    I think Dorset St deserves better and I suspect that with ABPs HQ not being a million miles away on Marlborough St, that their thinking may not be dis-similar. Ultimately what was proposed was utterly unsuitable, so a good decision as far as I’m concerned.

  • #715904

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Extract from The Bord Order
    DECISION
    REFUSE permission for the above proposed development based on the reasons and considerations set out below.

    MATTERS CONSIDERED
    In making its decision, the Board had regard to those matters to which, by virtue of the Planning and Development Acts and Regulations made thereunder, it was required to have regard. Such matters included any submissions and observations received by it in accordance with statutory provisions.

    REASONS AND CONSIDERATIONS
    1. The proposed development involves the demolition of a Protected Structure as identified in the Dublin City Council’s Record of Protected Structures. It is considered that ‘exceptional circumstances’, as required by section 57 (10)(b) of the Planning and Development Act, 2000, have not been presented in support of the proposed demolition of a Protected Structure. It is considered, therefore, that the proposed development would be contrary to the conservation principles of the current Dublin City Development Plan and to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.

    2. Having regard to the restricted size of the site and the pattern of development in the area, it is considered that, by reason of its height, mass, materials, design, proximity to boundaries and location forward of the front boundary line on the site, the proposed development would result in an overbearing form of development and such a significant visual impact as to diminish the integrity and importance of the adjacent Protected Structure, its setting and the Conservation Area in proximity to the site. It is the policy of Dublin City Council to protect the curtilage of protected structures from any works which would cause loss or damage to the special character of the protected structure. The Proposed development would be contrary to policy H2 of the current Dublin City Council Development Plan and would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.

    Condition 2 shows the adjacent Protected Structure in a conservation area provides additional protection of this site

  • #715905

    Devin
    Participant

    Here is the revised proposal – a Georgian reproduction – for the Dorset Street house with Brinsley Sheridan association, the previous one having been approved by DCC but refused by ABP. The planning ref. is 4063/08. AI has been requested. As far as I know the existing bit of Georgian house is being retained and incorporated into this repro.

  • #715906

    gunter
    Participant

    A step in the right direction if no. 12 is to be restored, but I don’t know about that mirror image next door, or the extra dormer storey!


    Photograph of an intact no. 12, which appears in Peter Pearson’s ‘The Heart of Dublin’

    The last thing we need right now is for lazy, early 1980s style, ‘pastiche’ to make a reappearance and taint the debate on the need to consider genuine restoration projects in specific cases.

    As with Devin’s post on 62 -65 Thomas Street, I think the need to develop a contemporary architectural language for the individual plot, in-fill, site couldn’t be clearer.

  • #715907

    gunter
    Participant

    From Phoenix Magazine, August 2009:

    RAISE a toast to developer Shane Murphy, who’s finally got permission
    to redevelop the Dorset Street home that was not Brinsley Sheridan’s,
    the 18th century playwright and politician.
    Back in 2007 a row emerged when the remains of the house, listed on
    the belief it was the home of Brinsley Sheridan, were permitted to be
    demolished by Dublin City Council.
    In went the appeal by local Senator David Norris to An Bord Pleanála,
    supported by An Taisce, and planning journalist Ruadhán MacEoin. And
    down in flames went the permission.
    However it then emerged that although Brinsley Sheridan lived at 12
    Dorset Street, it actually wasn’t this house, as prior to 1840 the
    street was renumbered – with the “real” Sheridan house inadvertently
    demolished years ago.
    Hence Murphy was free to get the house de-listed, and replace it with
    a new development. But the saga took another twist when Murphy instead
    applied to reinstate the house in which Brinsley Sheridan wasn’t born
    in – and match it with a twin Georgian style townhouse that was never
    there.
    Although a reinstatement, the Dominican priory next-door appealed the
    scheme to An Bord Pleanála. Again Norris and MacEoin also filed
    observations – but this time welcoming the redevelopment.
    Happily Murphy has just got consent from the Bord – but with this
    stipulation: “details of the plaque to be placed on the wall to
    commemorate the proximity of Brinsley Sheridan shall be submitted to,
    and agreed with the planning authority prior to commencement of
    development”.
    “A plaque on all your houses!” Goldhawk says.

    ”A plaque on all your houses” I do like that:) leave it to Goldhawk to murder Shakespeare!

    Probably better than ‘A plague on both your mortgages’

  • #715908

    gunter
    Participant

    A plaque on both your houses! . . . . one plaque might not be enough.

    According to this 1994 Abbey Theatre programme for ‘The Plough and the Stars’ (mentioned elsewhere), not only Brinsley Sheridan, but Seán O’Casey too, was born in this house!! The floorboards must have been creaking with dodgy playwrights 🙂

    Wait till Goldhawk gets hold of this 🙂

  • #715909

    Global Citizen
    Participant

    Well spotted Gunter.

  • #715910

    Burner
    Participant

    I’m trying to track down the name of a book which dealt with the development of DOrset Street and nearby parts of the North City during the 19th century. I heard the author interviewed on the Pat Kenny radio show two or three years ago but cannot recall the name. Any suggestions?

  • #715911

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    The Moy pub and No.13 back in the day

    [attachment=0:1q9zgs4h]420573_291074550956450_100001617226452_767100_512337299_n.jpg[/attachment:1q9zgs4h]

  • #715912

    urbanisto
    Participant

    Great shot. Such a shame for the building.

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