Metro R.I.P.

Just like the Metro link to the airport is now transformed into a DART link and sure close down the DART service to Howth to transform the Metro line into a DART line to the Airport !!– what rampant confusion, stop the lights, is there no end to the doddering and dithering of this government on transport infrastructure “planning” !!

seamus brennan should be hung from the tallest tree……

stupid to drop the metro, but if they do, stupider still to use the dart line, the dart line if full, resignalling and platform work will increase capacity, but not by enough, the north bould line already carries the enterprise and, again, how to get from the west to an airport without bringing your car?

there must be a better way to get to the airport, platform11 have a suggestion using the sligo line.

Is the originally planned Luas Line really unfeasable… serving Drumcondra and Ballymun and on out to Swords

i agree, a good solution is to connect the airport to the rail network using a spur from the sligo line and to connect it to the luas network by running a luas line north via dcu and ballymun.

the thing lost here is a new use for the lovely broadstone station.

A very well written article – though not heartening to read I must say.

Unfortunately I’m not surprised. I hate being negative but with the Luas (a mere on-street trolley bus on rails) taking a ridiculous amount of time and money to build, how could we ever build a metro?!

Of course too, those new Luas lines will solve all our traffic problems too.

I’m afriad the quality of government in Ireland has been poor for a very very long time and until that changes, we can’t expect such infrastructure issues to change. Of course the economy will never benefit in the long term with unsustainable housing development and a lack of an intelligent transport infrastructure and maybe this, one day, will force the issue. Until then we’ll just have to look enviously at our continental neighbours as they travel efficiently around their integrated city transport systems (Berlin, Frankfurt, Madrid, Brussels, Paris, Barcelona, Nuremburg, Hamburg, Prague, Bucharest, Budapest, Kiev, Lisbon, Strasbourg, etc etc).

The only hope is that that one day comes soon and the government cannot avoid it any longer!

That said though – time is needed.

A very well written article – though not heartening to read I must say.

Unfortunately I’m not surprised. I hate being negative but with the Luas (a mere on-street trolley bus on rails) taking a ridiculous amount of time and money to build, how could we ever build a metro?!

Of course too, those new Luas lines will solve all our traffic problems too.

I’m afriad the quality of government in Ireland has been poor for a very very long time and until that changes, we can’t expect such infrastructure issues to change. Of course the economy will never benefit in the long term with unsustainable housing development and a lack of an intelligent transport infrastructure and maybe this, one day, will force the issue. Until then we’ll just have to look enviously at our continental neighbours as they travel efficiently around their integrated city transport systems (Berlin, Frankfurt, Madrid, Brussels, Paris, Barcelona, Nuremburg, Hamburg, Prague, Bucharest, Budapest, Kiev, Lisbon, Strasbourg, etc etc).

The only hope is that that one day comes soon and the government cannot avoid it any longer!

That said though – time is needed because the government have proved, with trying to build a relatively simple tram system, that they just are not up to the task – hence the need for so many consultants.

Once the Northern Line hits the DART’s operational area, all hell breaks loose – there is no extra capacity whatsoever at peak times – it is laughably overstretched as it is.

With regard to Metro, there’s no point commenting or offering an opinion, we all know what a shambles infrastructure planning is in this country – there’s just no point – spend consultancy fees on cleaner buses and give up on everything else. At least then we’ll get some value for money.

Its probably wise to cut losses now. We can rethink building a metro when we are actually able to build with within a reasonable budget and also very importantly, within a reasonable timeframe. The Luas project has proved that we are currently not able to do either and so I guess we should wait until that time happens.

In the meantime though we need to take stock. The consultancy madness is amazing though. As a related aside I thought it laughable when listening to the news last night.

The environment minister was criticising the Labour party who had just ruled out electronic voting. Aparently the Labour party ruled it unfeasible after a study by two of its secretaries. The minister stated bolding that Labour’s study was insufficient and that the dept’s study was much more in-dept, involving the opinions of SIX CONSULTANCY firms. It must be that politicans just cannot make a decision any more – they have to spend a fortune to make that decision. I was just wondering how much six colsultants reports on the same issue cost?!

The Japanese Company (Matsui?) who wanted to build and operate should be given the contract and told to break ground by March. Who in their right mind does not want the metro built?

Dublin didn’t need a second Metro

http://www.platform11.org/nometro.html

Dublin didn’t need a second Metro

http://www.platform11.org/nometro.html

I must say that I am rather surprised and disappointed by Platform11’s objection to the Metro, and consequent display of contentment at its cancellation. It is really sending the wrong message to all who are influenced by the lobby group, quite a few apparently. While it was of capital heavy (but not more so than any other major infrastructure project) and not “the perfect solution”, it was A solution – much better than none and/or the money going into new motorways. The latest trend has become “metro-bashing”, in the midst of the current economic climate and spite towards certain politicians, many people are falling for it, ignoring the real reason for the project: A real transportation need. There will be regrets in a few years time. We hear all too often how X should have been done in the 1970/1980. History repeats itself

Some comments on issues raised about the metro:

There is a lot of reference to serving “the airport” and how much better a heavy rail line is in that role. Of course it would have been a key metro terminus, however why are many disregarding the other areas to be served, many which are far from any heavy-rail/DART lines. No metro basher has a suggestion for any of those.

Why the fixation that it would have “dumped people in at the base of the spire”? That was he first phase and would of course have changed later. Anyway, many people seemingly do want to go to the city centre, otherwise why would so many cities have dedicated non-stop express rail services between the airport and city centre.

People say how poorly planned the metro was with routes changing every second week. No doubt, however with different consultants etc., that is to be expected and does not change the need for the metro itself. If the same logic was applied 4-5 years ago, we would not be so close to the LUAS today. It has its problems (why two totally separate lines and consequent need for the duplication of much infrastructure) however I have no doubt that it will become a vital, much loved, and heavily used part of the city’s transport infrastructure the day it starts operating.

Now for some comments on the new idea, a spur from Howth Junction to the Airport. For a start, it is rather shocking that that three stations with large catchment areas (and the myth that it is just affluent villagers is absurd) will lose direct services, obviously a big step backwards and an ideal way to force plenty of people back to their cars. Every seat change reduces passenger potential by at least 30%, that statistic is from efficient railway systems… imagine it with CIE’s delays, full trains etc.

Furthermore there is a severe lack of capacity on the City – Howth Junction line, any extra tracks is 10+ years away and improved signalling only marginally increases capacity which should really be used by current DARTs/Belfast trains. There is obviously no capacity for direct trains, consequently Airport – City (Tara Street) journey times will likely be 30+ minutes, a minimal improvement compared to Aircoach. Metro journey time with stops en-route was supposed to be 18 – 24 minutes. The concept of “Belfast trains running via or Cork trains running through to the airport” often gets mentioned as a reason for Heavy Rail to the airport, but as appealing as it sounds, there is simply no capacity at present or in the foreseeable future.

I admit that in reality we should be seeing both Heavy Rail/DART expansion and the Metro, however the idea that the former can replace any need for the second is pure fantasy. I very honestly doubt we will be seeing any whole new DART lines and in any case, those would be significantly more expensive to build than the Metro.

Jeremiah

Jer, I too noticed the posts on the platform11 message board on this subject and also felt the metro bashing was getting a bit frenzied.

I like platform11’s idea of a heavy rail presence at Dublin airport but I agree with you that this could not possibly replace the need for a Metro in Dublin.

Its not simply about getting people from the airport its about providing everyone who lives outside the DART and LUAS catchments areas with a frequent reliable public transport service adding a spur on to the DART just does not provide this.

On the cost side of things, nobody wants another LUAS type scenario (and this may help) but I think its just something we have to stomach and future generations will thank us like we thank CIE for having the foresight and determination to build the DART in the 80’s.

Can we have both? 😉

Well I think they should drop the metro for now, as it is a phenonmenal cost for what it gives you. Spending the same 4 billion on extending the luas would be much better.

Just think: 800 million = 2 luas lines
So: 4 bn = 10 luas lines

BUT I am 100% in favour if extending the Luas. We know how to do it now – we know the costs, and it WIll work very well, if they keep adding more and more sections. It is very user friendly and much cheaper to build.

Over time we could have a scenario where we have a comprehensive light rail system of 12 lines, building the ten fresh lines at say, a new line every 18 months, for the next 15 years. An outlay of around €270m per year at today’s prices. At a carrying capacity per line of 15,000 per line over rush hour, it gives you a capacity of 200,000. And it means you could go ANYWHERE in the city via light rail.

Contrast that with the alternative solution at the same price of two luas and one metro line.

If the dart can be modified to serve the airport at a much cheaper price, that begins to take care of the heavy traffic in that area.

And finally – I completely agree that the critical infrastructure ‘metro’ bill is a stalking horse for more roads, not a better public transport system.

4 billion is the RPA figure and that bunch of monkeys should not be allowed near another infrastructure project. Let a private company build and run it and you’ll see its price tag drop, even half which brings it inline with the cost of the LUAS.

Ok the LUAS is cheaper but the metro offers greater capacity, faster travels times and is future proof, so justifies the higher price tag. Each LUAS line has to share the streets with everything else making slower, less reliable and lower in capacity.

For example the two lines in construction at the moment will only remove only 2% of cars from our roads. We need a transport system that gets more people out of their cars.

Building a metro is also less disruptive that building more LUAS lines. The reaction from the city traders aside, Dublin can’t afford to be a building site for the next 15 years.

But if it was a choice between your LUAS scheme redeoin and nothing or even the new DART spur, extra LUAS lines has it as Dublin needs to get people out of their cars and soon.

Invest in the future I say.

history has shown us that we need to make investments in infrastructure that may not even reap benefits or justify their cost until the next genereation. imagine cities like paris london or newyork without the foresight of city leaders expending phenomenal amounts of money on massive infrastructure progeammaes. those cities would have choked on their own traffic long ago.
i know dublin isnt newyork, but it is expanding into a large urban centre. we need to bite the bullet and think of the future instead of placating voters with more instataneous cheaper road imrovements. even if the luas system went underground in the city centre, that would be something. i think the present two lines are far less than requirement.
but that said, we shouldnt throw money at the rail procurement agency ever again. maybe private is the only way to go.

What is the obsession with building a line to the airport, with the possibility of it not stopping anywhere along the way?

Surely a line to the airport, direct or otherwise is the very least of the city’s concerns, what about serving Ballymun and the plethora of other areas of the city, north and south, in need of public transport commuter services – a line to the airport to serve one-off trips for business people and holiday-makers is hardly the most pressing of matters for Dublin transportation.

Solve everyday routes, hence the long-suffering citizens of this city first, and then meddle about as much as you want with an airport line.

well, a metro would be great, but lets finish one thing before starting another, let’s electrify the kildare and maynooth line and run dart trains on them, connect the airport to the sligo line and build a luas line to dcu and ballymun and another to crumlin.

Or… let’s not debate and just build the damn thing as set out in DTO’s platform for change. Enough is enough – the constant two-ing and fro-ing with consultant reports and studies… it’s maddening. There’s nothing to to be reported that hasn’t already been studied a thousand times.
I’m not concerned in what form the solution is delivered – so long as something is done. The problem is not going to go away, despite all the talking and consulting.

Yeah a Metro’s not that cheap – yup – that’s called “INVESTMENT”. I think this government has a hard time separating investment from expenditure. Spend for now – invest for the future.

I’ll say it again. You invest for the future – and they way things are going – we ain’t gonna have a very bright one, but we’ll have a sea of reports to wade through.

Hear hear

It’s the fundamental problem with political leadership in this country, with all parties – just cover yourself for todayand let someone else deal with the resulting problems in the future.

Evident not least in the countless office blocks that the state is dishing out millions in leasing, when Government could have shown some forsight in the 70s & 80s and built them itself – instead of lining the pockets then and now of it’s developer-supporters.

Yeah – it reminds me of the courthouse in Cork. A fine building that was closed to be renovated outside and in. The City Council took ownership of the building – while court functions were held outside in another venue at a cost close to €1.5m per anum in rent etc.
The Council restored the facade years ago – it was up to the the Dept of Justice to take care of the interior. Several Years later – the place was still boarded up. Yup – lovely gleaming facade – mothballed inside.
Rather than spend the money at the time to do up the interior they preferred to spend millions vastly more than the original bill on rent in the intervening years. It was only local political pressure to do the job in time for cultural celebrations in 18 months time coupled with the fact that the City Council never formally handed the building back to the government that allowed this job to go ahead.
What should have cost very little has now ballooned (rent for the other venue isn’t going away either) and the City Council are paying for the job, leasing it back to the government over the next 20 years. That’s good fiscal management.

Dublin may need a metro – but not to link it to the Airport. A very high proportion of people using the airport DON’T live in Dublin centre – they live in the suburbs and other parts of the country. They don’t want to have to go into the city centre and then take a metro having walked to wherever the metro terminus will be.

Another point that has been raised here is that the northern DART line is operating at capacity.

SOLUTION – run the Airport rail connection along a branch from the Maynooth line and extend that line to connect to the Northern line, north of Dublin Airport. Then you run all Drogheda / Dundalk / Belfast trains along this line through the Airport to Connolly. This leaves extra capacity on the DART line.

The primary advantage is that, for example, someone living in Belfast can be at Dublin airport in 1h45 without ever seeing the centre of Dublin.

This model works at Schipol airport. I was there recently and was able to hop on the inter-city network at the airport and go to Groningen without going near Amsterdam.

INAUGURATION OF SINGAPORE’S NORTH EAST LINE AUTOMATIC METROSingapore’s North East metro line was today inaugurated by Singapore Deputy Prime Minister, M. Lee Hsien Loong, in the presence of the Land Transport Authority (LTA) Chairman, M. Michael Lim, and M. Patrick Kron, Chairman and CEO of ALSTOM.The new 20-km underground line, the first automatic metro line in Singapore, comprises 16 stations. The contracts for the fully automatic train control system and the 25 x 6 car trainsets were awarded to ALSTOM in 1997 and 1998 respectively.The fully automatic metro system, the largest in the world in terms of passenger capacity, has been in passenger service since 20th June 2003. It has been described as the ‘way to go’ for public transportation by Hans Rat, secretary general of UITP, the international association of public transport. In a statement, the association predicted that more and more cities worldwide will follow Singapore’s recent example.In just over two months of service, the highly complex system has been running smoothly with a level of reliability of 99.5%, 97% schedule adherence within 2 minutes, and an average 150,000 passengers per day.ALSTOM is also supplying all the electrical and mechanical equipment, including the rolling stock for Singapore’s second automatic metro line, the Circle Line. Once completed, this will be the world’s longest automatic metro line, with 40 km.
http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/story.asp?siteid=ft&dist=ft&guid=%7B274E5080%2DCB99%2D4F85%2D80C5%2D8894CC3B5FE0%7D

I am sure that a future election promise of jet packs for pigs will precede completion of a similar project here.

How come nobody’s posted on this thread in so many years?

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Metro_-_Luas/Metro_North.html

It seems construction is planned to start on metro north in 2009

2013 (subject to planning and procurement processes)

what I find strange is that they tender before the public has even had there chance to have a say…

epretenders…

We will soon know if Ireland wants to call itself a knowledge nation of innovators..

+ 1

I heard on Newstalk this morning (when they read from the papers) that the Metro is going to be axed. WTF? I live in Swords and just received a notice from the RPA they said nothing about the Metro being axed. That would be a major strategic and economic goof, makes no sense. However I have a feeling the paper Newstalk were quoting from were talking a load of crap.

I saw that it could on the front page of one of the papers today but hopefully not…

either way I can use the same design twice;)

It was in the Daily Irish Mail. They had a “source”

A ‘source’, you say…

It’s highly unlikely that the metro was axed as it is the most important transport21 project. It is more likely that the luas city centre link up and extension to liffey junction was axed. Did they mention the name of the source? was it the homeless guy who hangs aroung Henry street shouting “the end is nigh”?:rolleyes:

It would be weird to cancel a construction heavy infrastructure project, particularly with the roads projects winding down as the inter-urban routes get completed.

The Daily (hate) Mail is a loathsome rag for rightwing little englanders and I wouldn’t believe a word they print even if they had a picture of a transport 21 memo with metro axed written on it. The sooner they fuck-off back to england the better – don’t forget bad news sells (bad) papers

@notjim wrote:

It would be weird to cancel a construction heavy infrastructure project, particularly with the roads projects winding down as the inter-urban routes get completed.

Not just that; contractors are going to be getting more and more competitive too. Perhaps not great for the employees, but good news for the delivery of infrastructure- the time is now, now more than ever. (There might even be money left over in T21 for cycling! :rolleyes:)

@cgcsb wrote:

It’s highly unlikely that the metro was axed as it is the most important transport21 project. It is more likely that the luas city centre link up and extension to liffey junction was axed. Did they mention the name of the source? was it the homeless guy who hangs aroung Henry street shouting “the end is nigh”?:rolleyes:

The Luas link up has already been shelved. That was revealed months ago. It’s been known for a while that the metro is a candidate for the axe, roads are more important apparently.

Metro West might well get axed but I doubt Merto North will.

I agree that’s more likely but in a country where Govt politicians are looking over their shoulders don’t be surprised to see both shelved

@ctesiphon wrote:

Not just that; contractors are going to be getting more and more competitive too. Perhaps not great for the employees, but good news for the delivery of infrastructure- the time is now, now more than ever. (There might even be money left over in T21 for cycling! :rolleyes:)

bikes…

I asked for 2000 spaces at the green and 2000 o’con so if they connect the dots we should be covered…
Vote yes for missarchi i mean no…

@Rory W wrote:

The Daily (hate) Mail

Rory

Thats a bit Dun Laoghaire 1985 of you (says in best McGreedy Kildare lilt) and as we are on an architecture forum please consider the support they give to architecture by occupying Embassy House Dublin 4 arguably the best office building of the 1990’s in Ireland and Northcliffe House Aka John Barkers, unarguably the finest Deco building in London :p

They are onto something as JDivision says albeit yet to be quantified in scale back; building either project at this time would be very foolhardy given the state of the public purse. This really is a very good time for a thorough review of transport investment priorities before wading in to a priority list written 2004 agaionst a totaly different fiscal backdrop.

PVC King: Your instincts here seem very pro-cyclical, a more normal response to a downturn would be cut current spending while maintaining capital investment, in our special case, maintaining capital spending on construction projects would be particularly apt. One would have to imagine that the case for various projects are being reevaluated, not least because that would explain the rash of metro related articles in the Times, but I hope they are going to be sensible, the route is planned, the soil samples have been taken, the construction sector is under-utilized and government bonds are about the only way to raise finance.

Anyway, now I have two things to worry about; the call for applications to PRTLI 5, the third level capital programme was supposed to have been announced already.

Indeed in the ideal world one would act in a counter-cyclical manner but should a rash of paper be issued in the current market there would be a further increase in the spread from bund rates; a rate we were below only a couple of years ago.

The real trick is to ensure that any tender price reflects the point of the construction cycle we are in and not the demand for competing project types of the 2004-07 excesses.

I do see an upturn in 2010 mind

there is always the option of the ikea fitout head north :rolleyes:

http://www.frostfirezoo.com/ikea-decks-out-kobe-train

@jdivision wrote:

The Luas link up has already been shelved. That was revealed months ago. It’s been known for a while that the metro is a candidate for the axe, roads are more important apparently.

The luas link up has been shelved? not according to RPA’s website which states that it’s been delayed till after metro tunneling is finished. What do you mean by it’s been known for a while that the metro might be shelved? where’s your information coming from?

Hopefully if the Metro is being axed (music to my ears) the Luas BX link can go ahead straight away.

@Devin wrote:

Hopefully if the Metro is being axed (music to my ears) the Luas BX link can go ahead straight away.

nah – all the disruption with fuck all of the benefits?

Look T21 is fully costed and funded at this stage, it will happen! The media (esp the Daily Mail) love bad news and let’s face it anyone can have a source! Roll on the metro

@Devin wrote:

Hopefully if the Metro is being axed (music to my ears) the Luas BX link can go ahead straight away.

Why would you wish the metro to be axed? It is very important to the national infrastructure

It is if somebody says it is. Have you heard both sides of the argument?

It’s not if somebody says it is, that’s conjecture and hear say. No I haven’t heard both sides of the story, please tell me why the Metro (the most important transport21 project is a bad idea)?

Piece for and against, from Irish Times on May 26, 2008. I don’t agree with Frank Allen.

HEAD TO HEAD

Does Dublin need a Metro rail service?

YES: Metro North is an essential part of the infrastructure needed to support development and guarantee a better quality of life in Dublin, writes FRANK ALLEN

METRO NORTH is a response to the extraordinary growth in population and employment that has taken place in Dublin since the 1990s and is an essential part of the infrastructure needed to support future development.

Ireland’s GDP doubled between 1996 and 2006 and employment grew by 40 per cent. Growth in the Dublin area was more dramatic, with employment rising in Dublin city and Co Dublin by 137 per cent and jobs in the Fingal area growing by 184 per cent.

These figures alone explain why the commute between Swords and the city centre has taken longer every year, particularly when many commuters do not have an attractive public transport option available to them. This private car dependency is also contributing to an unsustainable growth in energy usage.

We all want infrastructure to support economic development and commuters, shoppers and policymakers alike recognise that traffic congestion and negative environmental trends must be addressed.

The Government’s commitment to fund major improvements in public transport through Transport 21 allowed the Rail Procurement Agency (RPA) to begin public consultation on a route for Metro North. Excellent progress has been made in agreeing a preferred route and in achieving strong support from key stakeholders.

When we began consultation two years ago, it was clear that people saw Metro as a link between the city centre and the country’s busiest airport. With active participation in consultation by residents, businesses and institutions, the role of Metro North as a vital link for communities on the northside of Dublin is now much better understood.

Metro North is recognised by Dublin City Council and Fingal County Council as necessary to achieving population growth without urban sprawl. Metro North will contribute to the success of Dublin City Council’s regeneration of Ballymun and the renewal of the Parnell Square area. Fingal County Council’s exciting plans to develop Swords as a consolidated town with a vibrant economy depend critically on proceeding with Metro North without delay.

Hospitals such as the Mater and the Rotunda recognise the benefits of a fast, high-frequency transport service at their doorstep. We are working closely with Dublin City University to integrate its campus with regional and national transport services.

A Metro stop at Drumcondra will provide excellent interchange with Iarnród Éireann’s Maynooth line service and will accommodate large crowds attending Croke Park. All of these benefits will not be achieved by Metro North on its own but through interchange with Dart, the Luas Red and Green lines and with bus services at high quality interchanges at many stops.

Visitors to Dublin from the North will be able to park their cars at a 2,000 space park-and-ride at Belinstown and travel to the city centre by Metro in half an hour.

An argument has been made that Metro North should be delayed and that implementation of the Iarnród Éireann interconnector project should be advanced in its place. This argument makes little sense.

The interconnector, whose funding is also provided for in Transport 21, will integrate Dublin’s suburban rail network and create additional capacity for commuter rail services. RPA and Iarnród Éireann are working closely together to ensure that passengers can avail of high-quality interchange between Metro North, the reconfigured Dart and the Luas Green line at St Stephen’s Green.

This co-operation is also intended to limit the construction impact experienced by the public from the two projects. Apart from the St Stephen’s Green interchange, the geographical areas to be served by Metro North and the interconnector are different; Dublin requires both projects to be implemented rather than one or the other.

Considering the advanced stage of design and progress with planning and procurement, a decision to reverse the order of implementation would do nothing to advance the interconnector and would put the implementation of Metro North in jeopardy.

Dublin’s pace of economic growth is likely to slow in the short term, but any future projections of employment and population for the region call for high-capacity public transport. There are understandable historical reasons why the Government was not able to fund the scale of infrastructure in Dublin that is regarded as the minimum required for a reasonable quality of life in other European countries.

Through Transport 21, the Government has committed to investing in infrastructure to catch up with urban growth and to make growth sustainable. If we spend the next year agonising about Metro North, the sequence in which projects should be implemented or whether we need a European standard of public transport, we will be deciding in favour of urban sprawl, continued car dependency creating worsening gridlock and a poor quality of life for Dublin’s future generations.

Frank Allen is chief executive of the Rail Procurement Agency

NO: The proposed Metro line to Dublin airport is just another example of bad – and very costly – planning, writes FRANK MCDONALD

FRANCIS RAMBERT, director of the Institut Français d’Architecture, got it right recently when he diagnosed Dublin as being “sick with urban and suburban sprawl”. We all know this is true; indeed, the Los Angeles-isation of the city has created a commuter belt extending outwards for 100km, with the M50 as its congested distributor road.

The plan to build a metro conjures up images of Paris and other major cities with underground rail networks. But Dublin isn’t Paris. The French capital has a population density of 20,000 people per square kilometre, compared to Dublin’s 1,500 per square kilometre. This raises the issue of horses for courses, and shows we’re not at the races.

Metro North, a 17km line between Swords and St Stephen’s Green, will do nothing to serve Dublin’s sprawling suburbs, with the single exception of Swords. All it will do is to add yet another disparate element to the city’s public transport services, which comprise buses, Dart, suburban rail and Luas.

This fragmented way of getting around doesn’t qualify as a public transport “system”. It is difficult to transfer between modes, there is still no integrated ticketing and the bus service, in particular, is unreliable due to American-style traffic congestion. No wonder most Dublin commuters choose to travel to and from work by car.

Nobody could deny that the two Luas lines have been a great success, even though they still don’t connect. According to the 2006 Census, Luas resulted in a 66 per cent increase in the number of rail commuters in the Dublin area, compared to 2002.

That’s a vote of confidence in high-quality, surface-running public transport. But now the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA), which brought us Luas, wants to go underground for Metro North. One of the main selling points is that this line would serve Dublin airport, where passenger numbers have exploded. But even with a rail link to the city centre, how many airport users would avail of it?

The rather surprising evidence from other European cities, even where airports are served by mainline rail, is that less than 30 per cent would take the train. In any case, if Dublin airport is the priority, it could be served much more economically by a spur off the Dart at Malahide, or by diverting the Dublin-Belfast main line.

Metro North would be extremely expensive. Although the RPA and the Department of Transport have refused to release even ballpark figures, The Irish Times established that the cost was estimated at €4.58 billion in 2004. Allowing for construction inflation since then and design changes that add to the cost, it’s probably close to €6 billion now.

At least 100km of surface-running light rail lines could be built for the same price, and probably a lot more. This would turn Luas into a network serving many more places than Metro North. Even augmented by Metro West, the cost of which has not been disclosed either, Dublin would only be getting a total of 42km of metro under current plans.

The economic analysis of Metro North as a stand-alone project is not impressive. Even with “value engineering”, such as no-frills stations, the benefit-to-cost ratio is nearly three times lower than the equivalent calculation by the RPA of a city centre link between the Tallaght and Sandyford Luas lines, running down Dawson Street.

Yet this vital link, dropped by the Government in 1998 due to sheer political cowardice, has been long-fingered again as the RPA concentrates on the metro project. Sure, it would cause disruption – but nothing quite as devastating as digging up a quarter of St Stephen’s Green to carve out Martin Cullen’s “Grand Central” station.

In economic and even transportation terms, Metro North would only stack up if it was extended southwards to Sandyford, Cherrywood and Bray – in effect, supplanting the existing Luas line. This would involve yet more expensive tunnelling between the Green and Ranelagh.

The major transport project in Dublin that does make sense is CIÉ’s proposed rail interconnector, or “Dart underground”, between Heuston Station and Spencer Dock, running via the Liberties, St Stephen’s Green and Pearse Station, Westland Row. This would knit together all of the suburban rail services, transforming them into a real network. Inter-agency rivalry between the RPA and CIÉ, with each jockeying for position (and public funds), should not be allowed to get in the way of an objective assessment of the priorities for investment – especially in these financially-straitened times. Otherwise, the danger is that Metro North will consume most or all of the resources available.

The Government (including its Green Party Ministers) needs to pause and reflect on the priorities before the RPA enters into a contract with one or other of the four consortiums bidding to construct, operate and maintain Metro North. And that could happen as early as August.

Frank McDonald is environment editor of The Irish Times and author of several books on Dublin

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0526/1211740435289.html

Frank McDonald hasn’t generally got a clue on these issues., He decided in 2001 he didn’t like Metro and nothing will change that view – the view which said we must demolish west Dublin in order to make it viable. His scaremongering of a Metro/Iinterconnector either/or scenario is unhelpful as well . One needs the other in order to be fully effective. And SSG or “Martin Cullens Grand Central” will be part of the I/C line in any case. He needs to get out of Temple Bar more and quit dreaming of cappucinos in the sunshine while near silent trams flit by in all directions.

The no arguement is full of holes it highlights urban sprawl at the same time as suggesting the metro is not important and a wasate of money.
-A spur off the dart line to the airport is unpractical for high frequency rail as the northern line is already above it’s capacity. It already serves Commuter, Dart and enterprise services
-Swords will have a population of 100,000 in the next ten years, is that not worth planninhg for?
-Yes surface tracking would be cheaper but the service would be subject to traffic and resulting delays
-The current airport buses are laughable and there needs to be more choice in public transport in the future
-The works on Stephen’s Green are a temporary set back.
– Why would extending the metro to Sandyford make it more viable? The luas already goes there
-The metro will be well connected to all other modes actually
-The interconnector is part of the transport21 plan aswel I’ll think you’ll find
-The RPA estimates that the metro will reach it’s capacity within ten years of it’s completion. Does that not suggest that there is a high demand? Why would they lie about that? building a metro with no demand would put them out of pocket

from the horse’s (RPA’s) mouth:

“RPA is pleased to be able to inform you that good progress is being made with plans for Metro North which will extend from St. Stephen’s Green via Dublin Airport to Belinstown. RPA intends to apply to An Bord Pleanála for a Railway Order later this year with the aim of startig construction in 2009.”

Both McDonald and Michael O’Leary (who was such a twat on the last word I had to switch it off) totally overlook the fact that the metro doesn’t only run from the green to the airport, indeed I reckon people travelling from Drumcondra to the city centre may use it. People from Swords may use it (and those bits of Malahide that are actually in Swords (Malahide 6W??) – yes Malahide has Dart but that wont beat 25 Mins to the Green) as cgcsb has pointed out as well as people in DCU and Ballymun.

Also some of the workers in the airport?
And the proposed Airport City business area?

Sorry Frank, have admired your work from the Destruction of Dublin onwards but on this one I have to disagree.

We need both the interconnector and Metro North to make things even start to work for Public Transport in Dublin

@Rory W wrote:

indeed I reckon people travelling from Drumcondra to the city centre may use it.

We need both the interconnector and Metro North to make things even start to work for Public Transport in Dublin

Spot on Rory – however I would have taken it for grant it that anybody on the metros route would use it.

If it helps save the metro I would like to announce right now that I will use it to travel from the Mater Stop to the city center, maybe even as often as every day.

Of course, the proximity of the Mater Stop to my house is exactly why the Metro North boosterism I routinely practice on this site should not be trusted.

its the money!
its the money!!
its the money!!!

metro north looks great on paper and I’d love to see something like that in the city, but I don’t think we can possibly justify spending €6 billion on it. If you were to spend just €1billion on a proper bus service for the city you could something much more wide-reaching and effective in a fraction of the time.

And I’m not talking about giving the money to Dublin Bus, – we could create a new network from scratch with properly though-out routes, priority measures and passenger information systems, possibly augmenting an expanded Luas network, again with proper priority which the existing network does not have.

If we could build the Metro for a billion (how much did Madrid’s cost??) then fine, but 6 billion is outrageous and not justifiable for a project that only serves a small area of the city.

@shweeney wrote:

If we could build the Metro for a billion (how much did Madrid’s cost??) then fine, but 6 billion is outrageous and not justifiable for a project that only serves a small area of the city.

Add to that the fact that we all know it won’t get done even for 6 billion.

Is th metro not to be funded primarily through private finance? Seriously folks if we want to secure our economic future we need this sort of infrastructure which is considered basic in most countries outside of sub saharan Africa.

@darkman wrote:

Is th metro not to be funded primarily through private finance? Seriously folks if we want to secure our economic future we need this sort of infrastructure which is considered basic in most countries outside of sub saharan Africa.

the EU might help out if we behave:D… alot of the money ends up as bank fees insurance ect…

As far as I’m aware the reason for the high €6bn figure is because there’s private finance involved i.e. they’re not paying to build it in a straight forward way, they’re using a PPP, they’re getting someone else to build it with their own money (borrowed or financed at market rates – higher than gov rates) and then paying them back over 30 years!

therefore the cost is massive so it will be a lot more expensive than if the government just put the money up itself or borrowed the money itself.

:confused:

What do you mean pay them back? the private consortium contributes capital investment for construction costs in exchange for a contract to run the metro for a set amount of years after which it will be transfered to public ownership. Same story as the toll roads and the luas which are operated by NTR and Veloa respectively

Sure we all knew that the Metro was Pie in the Sky just like everything else here. It’s a wonder the port tunnel was built at all.

@shweeney wrote:

its the money!
its the money!!
its the money!!!

metro north looks great on paper and I’d love to see something like that in the city, but I don’t think we can possibly justify spending €6 billion on it. If you were to spend just €1billion on a proper bus service for the city you could something much more wide-reaching and effective in a fraction of the time.

And I’m not talking about giving the money to Dublin Bus, – we could create a new network from scratch with properly though-out routes, priority measures and passenger information systems, possibly augmenting an expanded Luas network, again with proper priority which the existing network does not have.

If we could build the Metro for a billion (how much did Madrid’s cost??) then fine, but 6 billion is outrageous and not justifiable for a project that only serves a small area of the city.

The cost is high, but building a whole new bus service or expanding the luas presents it’s own problems. For example anything other than a high speed metro link would run out of capacity very quickly.
Secondly we all know that air heads park on the so called QBC on Dorset street so more QBC’s would have similar issues. They have to wait at traffic junctions. The shortage of road space in the city center is an issue.
The luas is also subject to traffic lights and air head drivers that try to play chicken with the luas at junctions by parking in yellow boxes

I bet we’ll get a Quality Bus Corridor instead…

I’m curious if the EPA has tested the air quality on the corner of ulster bank college green and that pub facing the tourist office at around 5:35 on a hot still afternoon… The fact is people are so close to those fumes that i’m surprised the HSE has not intervened…. everywhere I look in dublin the buildings are black and the footpaths are black.

The metro said traffic is slower than a horse and cart in dubiln…

I think everyone here would be happy to spend 20 times as much money on a dublin metro rather than NDP roads for the next 20 years????

I’m still curious as to why transport prices are high in Dublin?????? are they???

the metro in rome is still 1 euro after 3 years???? I think the ticket price should be set by the board..
and what ever happened to a ticket that is valid for 90 minutes does such thing exist…

why not extend the malahide dart line on over around the estury and to the airport – rather than a whole new line out from the city. with some lateral thinking that could also serve swords and ballymun

the northern Dart line is allredy over capacity. With DART Commuter and intercity services running on it. Also Connolly and the Loopline cannot accomidate anymore train movements. Therefor a spur off the DART line to the airport is not feasable

As much as the metro costs a lot and that it would be cheaper to just have more buses that has a lot of problems. There are a large amount of buses in Dublin already and if there is to be a marked increase then it would just add to traffic. Also buses are subject to traffic lights.

I don’t know if anyone has noticed this or maybe it is just on my normal bus route of the 39 but why are there bus stops BEFORE major traffic lights. It annoys me that you wait ages in the queue to go through the traffic lights to halt right beside them for people to get on and off and by that stage you’re stuck again at the sam traffic lights that if they had it AFTER the traffic lights,a hundred metres or more you could pull out and away and not into traffic lights. That’s my rant.

I live very close to Castleknock train station. Kind of in between the station and Blanchardstown village where the evil 39 is. I would gladly take the train than the bus as you don’t have to factor in the what-if-theres-bad-traffic time. I can be either late or early with buses due to traffic. Trains are generally better, especially metro etc. You have a time table, you know when the train is going to be there. It is not a question of waiting forever, not knowing when a bus comes and then 3 come-one packed and two empty.

Planners seem to neglect the fact that although the initial costs are high once it is built it is there, forever possibly. London Underground is using the same tubes as 150 years ago. Increased capacity over time is better invested in extra trains with higher occupancy rates than roads with single commuters (something that irks me in the mornings seeing people in traffic one person to each car almost). It is better for the environment and better for later planning.

As much as the M50 upgrade is needed the 1bn or so is a capital investment after the possible 1bn or so taking into inflation that the m50 took to build and finish only a few years ago. And talking about the M50 we can see the massive inconveniences to people and public pocket by cutting corners by building woefully inadequate interchanges with laughable roundabouts with traffic lights. A monkey could plan things better. It is better to build now, build big and build metro.

I am all for metro. Although with the public finances as they are it may not be possible. We should be allowed to break the Stability and Growth Pact for a year or so, especially in this period of global slowdown. The pact was designed as a means to cut day to day spending and not major infrastructural programmes which this country seriously needs. I hope it isn’t scuppered or a victim of major cost cuts (a metro equivalent of the M50 interchanges?) but 6bn is a joke.

That is my ramble for this morning

I think a few of you need to realise that Metro North ain’t going to be cancelled on money grounds as no payment will required to be made until it’s up and running. It’s a PPP where the private sector raises the finance and then gets paid back over 30 years.

From
http://www.rpa.ie/?id=327

Q. How much will Metro North cost?

Section 2.7.9 of the PPP Guidelines specifically state that the final Public Sector Benchmark (the capital cost of the project if funded by the Exchequer), or any elements thereof, is not made public on the basis that revealing the amount that the State is willing to pay for a service may give tenderers an opportunity to increase their asking price above what they might otherwise seek.

In other words it’ll be actually more expensive overall as government can borrow / raise money at much cheaper interest rates than the private sector. Comprende!

It’s a pity they couldn’t have planned Luas lanes into a slightly wider Dublin Port Tunnel.
It’d have been possible to run Luas trams from the docklands to the Airport and Swords via the tunnel

I wonder, if it would be possible to do something to get public transport into the tunnel at this stage?

Even a rapid dedicated bus fleet that fed the airport + Swords could operate via the tunnel and dedicated lanes on the M1 hard shoulders. Drumcondra and the inner northern suburbs have a pretty decent bus network as it is.

If Dublin port is ultimately moved, it’s possible that the tunnel could be re-configured internally to take a luas line.

E.g. you could have a Luas tram running on what is now the fast lane, leaving a single lane + hardshoulder for traffic.
Obviously, strict speed limits for traffic would have to be applied and there’d be no overtaking, but it would be a small price to pay if it meant high capacity trams were running through it.

Even in its current state, I think this could be done. The tunnel’s not exactly over-run with traffic other than heavy goods, which could move in an orderly fashion along a single lane, with the safety of the hard shoulder in the event of emergencies.

With good design and proper traffic management, i’m sure it could be achieved.

Although, on second thoughts, Irish Local Authorities and traffic management are an oxymoron.

@MrX wrote:

It’s a pity they couldn’t have planned Luas lanes into a slightly wider Dublin Port Tunnel.
It’d have been possible to run Luas trams from the docklands to the Airport and Swords via the tunnel

Do you have any Idea how long it would take to get to the city centre from Swords? The journey would turn most people off public transport for good.

“Do you have any Idea how long it would take to get to the city centre from Swords? The journey would turn most people off public transport for good.”

Do you mean like the 142, 41X, Swords Express or some of the 748’s and 747’s. they all take 4 minutes to get from one end of the tunnel to the other what do you mean the journey would turn people off public transport?

I had to go to good old Swords last weekend from Terenure with Public transport. I practically needed the afternoon off to do it! 16A to the Airport and then a 41 bus to Swords…and back. Yourney time…4 hours. There were some Germans on the bus who got on in George’s street and were quite content until we started approaching Beaumont house and i could tell they were getting flustered. They mentioned something on O’Connell street that they would love to come back (i can eavesdrop German :P) but by the time we reached the airport they were thinking ‘get me the f**k out of here!!!’
My point is, people already need to traverse the city by Public transport, my french flatmate needs to go from Terenure to Ballsbridge every day, via the city centre in rush hour traffic. Public transport is ubiqitious and necessary in most cities…is that hard to believe? People depend on it. Just make sure that when the metro is built to the airport that it is marketed to the last in tourist spots, travel offices and hotels so that travellers do not need to go sightseeing in Saturday afternoon traffic on the top deck of the 16A!
Public transport is here to stay, and the LUAS passenger number increase year on year proves that.

well you first mistake was getting the 16a to the airport, should have changed in town and saved yourself 20 minutes each way at least

One of the saddest aspects of this thread is the all too apparent reality gulf which currently exists at Departmental and Ministerial level about what exactly constitutes a Bus service.

The current Bus Atha Cliath ORDINARY services which serve the Airport are largely already overstretched BEFORE factoring in any Airport specific traffic.

Sending Swords corridor services through the Airport can only be a sticky tape answer to the greater problem as the core business of the 41 group is Swords and greater North County Dublin.
Similarly the 16A attempts to portray itself as an Airport service when it`s merely an extension of a SANTRY route

There appears to be little recognition on the part of the Department and Minister of the difference between a service route and an express route a la Airlink or Aircoach.

Bus Atha Cliath have attempted to address this with the proposed 141 which would have linked Swords with Rathmines whilst bypassing the Airport.
This of itself would have freed up resources for those Airport bound customers who did not wish to travel (and pay for) Express.

However,the Department in it`s infinite wisdom consider that such an ordinary stage-carriage service operating along the Swords Road QBC will in some exestential fashion “interefere” with the Swords EXPRESS service which incredibly enough is a limited stop EXPRESS service utilizing the Port Tunnel.

I hope that somebody somewhere can see how immediate approval for the 141 (Proposed 10 Min peak frequency,with full 7 day service) is in the Public Interest which is surely the remit of the Department and Minister for Transport.

Bit off topic here but was looking at Italian rail system on the web. High Speed rail (250km per hr) from Rome to Florence takes approx one and half hours. In an Irish context I am thinking that would be Dublin to Kerry in the same time. It has been said before that other countries have been building these kind of projects for years and we still cannot prodcue a very minor metro system.

@jdivision wrote:

well you first mistake was getting the 16a to the airport, should have changed in town and saved yourself 20 minutes each way at least

in all fairness, there’s little difference with changing in town and changing at the airport. It’s sad that the airport is only served by one bus rout for the entire southside. I normally get the Aircoach on Leeson street if i need to go to the airport, which is normally very very early if going to the UK and therefore requires a taxi direct to the airport. The last time that cost me €35 from Terenure. I really don’t want to be paying that…it’s an embarrassment to public transport. At least the taxis are cleaning up

@Keen wrote:

in all fairness, there’s little difference with changing in town and changing at the airport. It’s sad that the airport is only served by one bus rout for the entire southside. I normally get the Aircoach on Leeson street if i need to go to the airport, which is normally very very early if going to the UK and therefore requires a taxi direct to the airport. The last time that cost me €35 from Terenure. I really don’t want to be paying that…it’s an embarrassment to public transport. At least the taxis are cleaning up

Youre forgetting the 746 bus Dun Laoire to Airport

@Keen wrote:

my french flatmate needs to go from Terenure to Ballsbridge every day, via the city centre in rush hour traffic. Public transport is ubiqitious and necessary in most cities…is that hard to believe? People depend on it. Just make sure that when the metro is built to the airport that it is marketed to the last in tourist spots, travel offices and hotels so that travellers do not need to go sightseeing in Saturday afternoon traffic on the top deck of the 16A!
Public transport is here to stay, and the LUAS passenger number increase year on year proves that.

In relation to your flatmate, That is just the reason why I think there should be circle line bus that travels along the grand canal interchanges with both luas lines and cross the new Becket bridge (2010) stops near grand canal dock, Connolly and Drumcondra stations. Interchages with the propsed Metro and luas line D, continues along the North Circular Rd., into the park and across Island Bridge, stopping near Heuston and continues along the Grand Canal

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=7005

@cgcsb wrote:

In relation to your flatmate, That is just the reason why I think there should be circle line bus that travels along the grand canal interchanges with both luas lines and cross the new Becket bridge (2010) stops near grand canal dock, Connolly and Drumcondra stations. Interchages with the propsed Metro and luas line D, continues along the North Circular Rd., into the park and across Island Bridge, stopping near Heuston and continues along the Grand Canal

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=7005

This is in fact an excellent idea… Yet it would be a real challenge to figure out how to give buses priority owing to limited space…

Must say I also like the idea of routing the metro through the tunnel – if for no other reason, than as a good example of a lateral thinking discussion point which this country should have more of. Less reactionaries, more lateralists 😉

@PTB wrote:

Do you have any Idea how long it would take to get to the city centre from Swords? The journey would turn most people off public transport for good.

I’d reckon it would only take about 20 to 30 minutes.

The tram would run from Connolly through the IFSC/Docklands, onwards to the tunnel and would be at the end of the M1 in about 5 to 6 minutes. It wouldn’t be that difficult to find surface routes for the Luas along the M1 as far as the airport and then cut cross country to Swords.

Ok well you could run it up the central margin of the M1 all the way to the airport, but you are talking about reducing the port tunnel down to one lane each way which is a daft idea

@CC105 wrote:

Bit off topic here but was looking at Italian rail system on the web. High Speed rail (250km per hr) from Rome to Florence takes approx one and half hours. In an Irish context I am thinking that would be Dublin to Kerry in the same time. It has been said before that other countries have been building these kind of projects for years and we still cannot prodcue a very minor metro system.

Madrid to Barca high speed train is close to 300 kph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid-Barcelona_high-speed_rail_line
And the ICE train that covers most of Germany / Switzerland cruises at 270kph…i’ve been on both and talk about luxury train travel.
I was talking to our accuontant at work and she was miffed at what was spent of our infrastructure now that the boom is over. And for the life of me i could not figure outhow a €180 Billion a year economy would not have developed a world class transport network in 10 years? I mean, what have we been spending the money on?
The motorways i understand and i have only good things to say about the LUAS…but the tunnel was an overpriced fiasco, no sign of the LUAS extensions and interconnector 4 years since the first LUAS line started running, and the Metro takes 6 years (for one line) so, are we just bad at this sort of thing?

@Rory W wrote:

Ok well you could run it up the central margin of the M1 all the way to the airport, but you are talking about reducing the port tunnel down to one lane each way which is a daft idea

It becomes a lot less daft if the port’s moved elsewhere as the HGV traffic would be eliminated. Moving the port up the coast has been on the cards for some time.

There’s so little traffic in it that one lane would probably suffice 🙂
I would think the bigger problem would be the safety issues – but if tram tracks were laid so that cars could also drive on them, then maybe that wouldn’t be an issue.
Perhaps, it should be built as well as the Metro as an underground tram serving Fairview, Marino, East Drumcondra and Beaumont (hospital also).
On a separate note, interesting picture in the Evening Herald of what the Drumcondra stop will look like, apologies if this has been posted before:
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/residents-get-a-look-at-the-future-of-metro-1435302.html

Why this is a daft idea – I’d prefer to see a seperate port tunnel (with a southside version as well) – which could also be used to service a new dockside area if Dublin Port moves and an underground system which serves the city centre, populated areas and transport interchanges rather than retrofitting a tram system to a car tunnel which is disconnected from populated areas.

The mockup of the Drumcondra Metro stop looks a very bland affair; remember the genuinely iconic London Underground suburban stations from the 1930s. No room here for an attempt at a similar high-quality design?

Is that view looking on from cloniffe rd? If so I hardly think that’s the design – isn’t there a much grander red brick building in situ that terminates the view on Cloniffe looking towards Drumcondra…

tickets please…

they are saving the hot potato till last… been doing double shifts 😉

@d_d_dallas wrote:

Is that view looking on from cloniffe rd? If so I hardly think that’s the design – isn’t there a much grander red brick building in situ that terminates the view on Cloniffe looking towards Drumcondra…

That’s St Vincent’s, the blind school and one of the few buildings with any civic presence in Drumcondra. Sadly, it is proposed to demolish this; I thought so as to create a plaza so All Ireland crowds exiting the metro would be less likely to spill out onto the road, it would be particularly weird to demolish this fine building and then build something back in the same place!

are you effin’ kidding me?!? at least with the Interconnector route selection process they purposely avoided station and routes that would require demolishing noted structures. That is not to say all will be spared though…

There’s so much garbage in Drumcondra, I can’t believe this is what they settled on. I suppose a school for the blind is easier to CPO. I’d nearly prefer Quinns to go…

nearly 😉

no chance of fagan’s though….

nah but the station may be called after the local patriot.

There are also plans to demolish two Victorian houses on the NCR near Dorset Street not to far from Drumcondra to accomidate an emergency exit for the Matter Hospital Stop

@cgcsb wrote:

There are also plans to demolish two Victorian houses on the NCR near Dorset Street not to far from Drumcondra to accomidate an emergency exit for the Matter Hospital Stop

Well four; two on the NCR for part of the main, only, entrance to the Mater metro and two at the other end of Leo st for ventilation and emergencies. I won’t regret the two NCR houses, they always make me sad anyway, you have a complete late Victorian terrace leading to them, Benedict terrace and then two more, obviously the orphaned remains of another terrace. They are on the Mater Site and owned by the hospital; I notice the nuns have been buying houses along Leo Street as well. The Deaf (sorry I said blind earlier) School is obviously eminently CPO’able since the primary responsibility of the owners is to deaf education, presumably better served by a purpose build, but it is a real shame this is coming down, it has a huge space at the back, surely there is a solution which saves the building?

guess the stations???? that article in the independent was no joke???

http://www.rpa.ie/upload/documents/Metro%20North%20Q%20Card%20OPEN%20DAYS%200708.pdf

who had green escalators first???

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=6398

they better not copy my green marble or there will be trouble…

I notice how in the picture of one of the undergroung stations, the sign said exit in Engish only. some of the pictures above the Irish section appear to be of metro west on an elevated structure

Metro North Light Rail Plan will go ahead, insists Minister

By Paul Melia
Irish Independent
Thursday August 07 2008

THE massive €3.7bn Metro North project in Dublin will go ahead as planned, the Government has confirmed.

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan met with the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) late last week and instructed the agency responsible for delivering the light-rail system to inform bidders that it would go ahead.

The move is designed so the four bidding parties seeking to build and operate the system submit the best possible price for delivering the light rail project, which will run from St Stephen’s Green to north of Swords.

It comes after the Government has repeatedly refused to state if it will be shelved as a result of falling tax revenues and the economic downturn.

Last night the Department of Finance confirmed that the meeting between Mr Lenihan, the RPA’s chairman Tom Mulcahy and chief executive Frank Allen took place last Thursday, but it refused to comment on what was discussed.

The RPA also refused to comment.

But informed sources have told the Irish Independent that the Government wanted to send out the message that the project, estimated to cost €3.7bn, would go ahead so the four bidders would submit the best price.

Message

“The meeting was to send a message to reassure the four consortia that the Government want a strong bid and for it (Metro North) to go ahead,” one said.

“If we keep the four consortia interested, we get the best price. But as was always the case, it has to come back to the Cabinet for final sign-off. It was always envisaged that this would be the case.”

Last week it emerged that a decision on whether Metro North would be approved will not be made until early next year.

Until the final cost of building the 17km line is known, the Cabinet will not approve funding.

In September the RPA, which has already spent €33m planning the project, will seek planning permission to build the line and the successful bidder which will design, build and operate the system, is not expected to be announced until November, after which it will negotiate with the RPA over a final price.

This process could run into early 2009.

Any delay to the project could have serious knock-on effects. The Ballymun Regeneration Scheme, expansion of Dublin Airport, development of a new town of 100,000 people in Swords and retail outlets, like Ikea, are all relying on the train route, and if it is put on the long finger it could send a signal that Ireland is not investing in infrastructure.

– Paul Melia

That’s super!