Rebuilding Old City parts

I’m sure some quarters (in particular the media – who are delighted to accuse the farmers of being whingers but don’t notice it themselves) would begrudge it being done.

I think it would be a fine idea – rich folk, come buy your townhouse along with neighbours Dermot Desmond, Dr Sir Tony J F O’Reilly (or what ever he goes by these days) and the Albany Men’s Clinic (eh?)

It was an option considered as a millenium project, to rebuild the facades. Frank Mc Donald wrote an artical about the proposed vacation of the building last May. I’ll have details tomorrow. In a way, its even more irritating that the ESB are leaving, all that needless destruction. On the day of the demolition of the 14 houses, people (admittedly conservationists) openly wept on the street, such was the feeling towards Georgian Dublin, and the Georgian Mile in particular.

The famous quotation of the decade of course, coming from a well respected conservationist drafted in by the ESB, ‘just one damned house after another’

Admittedly, the interiors of the houses were nothing spectacular, but the fine craftmanship of the Georgians on the smaller details of the interiors, and the exterior ‘cliff effect’ unique to Dublin, proving invaluable and irreplacable.

I do think its a good idea by the way

I like that idea, yes I do. And is it not currently stylish here, to live in the city (if you have money to carve out a nice place for yourself)?

City planners in my hometown are working feverishly to get people back into our small city with a combination of new homes and converting abandoned factories and office buildings. Had I not splurged on coming here, I’d be emailing you from one of those spots!

Don’t let anyone however, rebuild it wrong. We had a beloved old residential building that was demolished for a chain pharmacy, only to be reconstructed a few miles down the road. It is nothing like its previous self and I am sure they did not salvage the ornate iron lift and accompanying shaft (which, had I a truck, would be in the back yard of mom’s house!)

Uh, by the way, who exactly has the means for buying such property, if it were available here?

http://www.archeire.com/news/archives.cgi?f=keyword&keywords=fitzwilliam

They wouldnt really work for residentail because of the huge office space behind that facades. I can hardly see a property owner demoslih all that… but heres hoping

It seems to me that any nod towards the past gets derided as pastiche by the architectural critics. Despite the fact that people generally like the proportions of old Dublin buildings, the brickwork and the exterior detailing, when a gap gets filled in we always seem to end up with huge sheets of metal, levitating slabs of stone, windows at odd angles and so on.

My question, I suppose, is could you get any architect to suppress his/her desire for critical approbation long enough to work on such a restoration project.

I’m not an architect myself and perhaps that’s unfair to the profession. But I do wonder why numerous examples of great design (in my eyes) are ignored when creating new buildings.

I agree totally, esp relevant now on O’ Connell Street. 95% of it’s building stock is historic, using traditional materials. Whereas stark modernisim and ‘traditional’ buildings work so well together, eg the Stephens Green Hotel, the large glass building on the corner of Harcourt Street, there is no excuse for any type of modern intrusion onto O’ Connell Street. For some reason everyone seems to deem the new shoeshop bldg on the Street (formerly Burgerland) as being an outstanding success, even though it blatently breaks the attractive terrace in which it is placed with it’s modern lines.

Both the Royal Dublin and Fingal Offices, as well as the CIE bldg should be refaced in a manner sympathetic to the street, taking on the styles and materials of the late Victorians and early 20th century.

Pastiche is always laughed at today, caused by the dilution of proper classical forms into crappy suburban homes, Georgian sashes stylised into ghastly uPVC, and Victorian decorative brickwork mimicked by a singe row of bricks protruding from chimneys. There is nothing at all wrong with well executed replicas, using suitable materials and in the way they were intended. Of course progress is necessary and should be stimulated and encouraged, but also should a more mature approach to our tried and tested formulae.

Hi, I’m new to this site.
Regarding Fitzwilliam St – just because something was built in “Georgian Times” doesn’t necessarily mean it should be kept for ever – ESB were allowed to demolish those houses – which were considered “crap” for the era – and replace them with a building designed by a noted architect of the time. Alot of Merrion Sq area was built by speculative developers to poor standards for the day. In the 60’s even the government had plans to remove an entire side of Merrion Sq! I admit the HQ looks out of place for the area – but is building a fake facade really the answer? It sounds a bit tacky, and masks the fact that this is a city with history – both past and future – not some freeze frame of 1825. Walking down Fitzwilliam Sq reminds me of that. Also, last I heard, ESB are going nowhere.

On the contrary dddallas, I think alot of people would heartily disagree with you. Dublin’s Georgian streetscapes (minus the inverted commas) are an important treasure to be looked after and maintained. What happened on Fitzwilliam St in the 1960s was a crime – pure and simple – the result of corrupt politicians and developers and a complete lack of foresight and appreciation. Why shouldn’t the buildings be kept in their original state? Who says these buildings were originally built to ‘crap’ standards for their time? Noone is suggesting Dublin be in an 1825 freezeframe…but there are plenty of areas available to try out new without damaging the old.

As pastiche goes Harcourt Street (without the Luas works which just looks messy) looks fine considering the amount of pastiche on it. I’d sooner see a decent Pastiche (if not full replica) facade on the fitzwilliam street buildings than the current one. The only reason the ESB got away with demolishing these buildings was the lack of regulation, rather than the “crap” tag – yes they were hacked out of all recognition (inside) from their original state, but there are very few intact georgians about.

Don’t forget there was two periods, Georgian and Georgian revival, so copying the past isn’t necessarily a new invention. Or a bad thing.

Fair enough!
I agree that damaging the old is wrong, recent example archers garage down the road from ESB. But those houses have long been demolished and putting a fake facade up only serves to pretend that nothing has happened on the street. I’m not suggesting that the building is fine the way it is though… The odd thing is history has now come full circle – the interior foyer of said ESB building is now itself listed!

Considering the ESB building and not its location or what it has replaced what do people think of the design? ( I’ve been through the building a couple of times and do think the foyer is interesting!) Otherwise the mix of styles throughout the complex make it rather difficult to navigate!

I worked inside that building for a few months once (about 11 years ago, I think). It’s funny, I have no memory of the foyer at all. I do recall long, anonymous corridors.

There are some structures on the top of the building that you wouldn’t really notice from ground level. These include the National Control Centre for electricity generation in Ireland. That part is in quite a different style – a more modern interior.

There is rather a good view of Dublin from the roof – it’s higher than most other buildings. The ESB takes (or used to take anyway) advantage of this for line-of-sight microwave links to other spots around Dublin.

The outside I always thought severe. Since it is on a block by itself, I don’t feel that moving it would help.

Being a devout Georgianist, I must admit I rather like the ESB building, although its location, and what it replaced etc of course being inexcusable. Replacing the facade is not just an exercise in crooning over the past, but rather an effort to recreate the longest Georgian vista in the English speaking world. Whereas London’s and Bath’s terraces rely on uniformity and detail, Dublin’ s rely on the mass ‘cliff effect’ created, which was utterly lost in the demolition of the 16 houses.

Partly the reason previous attempts at replacing the facade failed, was because of the difference in floor levels, and their inappropriate heights, which would have to result in the demolition/remodelling of the entire front part of the building. A suggestion I have is that the facade be reinstated, and an atrium created inside, out onto which the floors could open. Hence when immediatly inside, you could look up right to the ceiling of the 4th floor. (Only if the residential proposal proves not feasible however)

what a damn good idea….

let’s do it…