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  • #710051

    notjim
    Participant

    Can I start a TCD thread, a thread for that glorious island whose traffic licked shores circumscribes my working day and whose, sometimes shaky, dedication to higher purpose anoints our great city.

    First off and most importantly, beautiful, or at least uplifting architecture was once expected of many institutions, local banks, Garda stations, schools, hotels, in the case of universities this expectation persists. Although the fullness of time will weigh accurately the fruit of our scholarship and research, in the short term, day to day, academic life is about a lot of ambitious, arguementative, opinionated people expressing their opinions and trying to win arguements. To win, to be listened to, to be even noticed, you need respect and, well, respect is partly about where you work, its history, its reputation and its appearance.

    How does TCD do: pretty well, the location, a fine Georgian set piece for front square, the Berkeley library is one of Ireland’s finest modernist buildings, the New Museum Building has fine carving and the Calder is a great piece of public art, beautifully sited, the conversion of the Provost’s stables is a dream. Where does it fail, well there are lots of trivial buildings too, the houses on the perimeter are poorly maintained, some of the grounds, the same, too many cars, the Pearse St disaster and most amazing of all, the college doesn’t routinely buy small pieces of property off but near the main site for student accommodation, leaving it very vulnerable to landlocking and leaving students with an incomplete university experience.

    Anyway, here is the newly polished Sphere within a Sphere, about to be remounted on its repaired revolving stand.

  • #801409

    Anonymous

    You know the front range at Trinity, Parliament Square, or whatever it’s called, there’s a lot of space between the top floor windows and the roof and the roof itself is very steep.

    There must be an awful lot of space up there!

    What goes on up there?

  • #801410

    Anonymous

    If those walls could talk, eh?

    If you happen to be passing, say Hi to Angela (two floors up, to the right).

  • #801411

    Anonymous

    @ctesiphon wrote:

    If those walls could talk, eh?

    If you happen to be passing, say Hi to Angela (two floors up, to the right).

    and her friend Betsy. She can leaf through my notes any time

  • #801412

    Anonymous

    I think ‘island’ is the right term for the campus with all its accompanying strengths and disadvantages.

    I’m actually only sticking my oar in here to recount an American buddy of mine who was convinced Aras an bPiarsigh was actually pronounced ‘Arse Piercing’ when we cruelly sent him to the front security desk to ask for directions one day!

  • #801413

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    I have to say that the last day I was in TCD, the place was a mess. Litter everywhere, and the weeds growing out of Grafton Architects podium was disgraceful.

  • #801414

    Anonymous

    And worse, until last week there was weeds growing on the stone base around the Calder; I suppose money is tight, but the lack of care given to small acts of maintenance really bugs me. As for the Ussher podium, have you seen the state of the drawbridge; there is a drawbridge, which I have never seen used which should connect the Ussher to Nassau street, it is gradually decaying.

  • #801415

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    You know the front range at Trinity, Parliament Square, or whatever it’s called, there’s a lot of space between the top floor windows and the roof and the roof itself is very steep. There must be an awful lot of space up there! What goes on up there?

    Well the boring answer is, I think, that the windows are quite low and so the top floor extends up further than you would expect, not a great photo from the top of house 5, note that the sink actually cuts off the bottom quarter of the window.

    House 5

    and here is the view from the same window.

    House 5

  • #801416

    Anonymous

    Wow, you can see a lot of grass from up there.

  • #801417

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Wow, you can see a lot of grass from up there.

    I seem to remember winning this argument in a different thread.

  • #801418

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Who were the architects of the Pearse Street buildings? Drawing a blank unless I guess.

  • #801419

    Anonymous

    @paul Clerkin wrote:

    Who were the architects of the Pearse Street buildings? Drawing a blank unless I guess.

    Seems that several folk were involved.

  • #801420

    Anonymous

    RKD architects working with Wilson Architects:

    http://www.wilsonarch.com/index/portfolio?projectsid=30

    (posted simultaneously with cobalt above)

  • #801421

    Anonymous

    Is it true that there’s an unrepealed Bye-Law on the books to the effect that, if you’re in the possession of a sword and you ride into Trinity on a horse demanding a ‘snifter’ of whishey, they’re obliged to give it to you?

    I suspect that a ‘snifter’ wouldn’t be the most generous of measures, but nonetheless, if you could slightly up-date the criteria from ‘sword’ and ‘horse’ to ‘fountain pen’ and ‘bicycle’, this could still be a useful clause.

  • #801422

    Anonymous

    You know the funny thing is I was in Trinity in Cambridge for a while and they had the same, almost exactly the same, story there. I doubt it is true there and I am sure it is not true here, the statutes have been rewritten relatively recently.

  • #801423

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    And worse, until last week there was weeds growing on the stone base around the Calder; I suppose money is tight, but the lack of care given to small acts of maintenance really bugs me. As for the Ussher podium, have you seen the state of the drawbridge; there is a drawbridge, which I have never seen used which should connect the Ussher to Nassau street, it is gradually decaying.

    The Nassua Street drawbridge with rust visible.

    Nassua St Drawbridge

  • #801424

    Anonymous

    Well, there’s no mention of horses, swords or whiskey in the consolidated statutes of 1966 and I doubt they were reinserted in the recent amendments.

    http://www.tcd.ie/Secretary/Board/Other_Papers/Statutes-Current.pdf

  • #801425

    Anonymous

    there’s also the story that if you are a scholar you can demand a glass of port during your exams. That’d be nice

  • #801426

    Anonymous

    @adhoc wrote:

    Well, there’s no mention of horses, swords or whiskey in the consolidated statutes of 1966 and I doubt they were reinserted in the recent amendments.

    Thanks for that, I had the feeling I was being set up.

  • #801427

    Anonymous

    Trinity during the light show back in February.

    Custard cream anyone?

    And during a quiet weekend morning – the perfect time for a nice contemplative sit.

    Also the extraordinary crown, cylinder, and modern float glass contrasting in a window of the Chapel – one of the delights of the Trinity campus.

  • #801428

    Anonymous

    Great picture GH – thanks! Common sense would have that radiator replaced by something wit a lower profile! To continue my photographs of less well photographed parts of TCD, the CS banana tree:

  • #801429

    Anonymous

  • #801430

    Anonymous

    Can anyone tell me what’s the story with the Luce Hall? Is it still in use? It’s a godawful looking thing and doesn’t really make good use of the site it’s on, there being a large but unusable gap between it and the Pearse St. boundary, as well as to it’s east towards Westland Row.

    Any plans for something new to replace it?

    Birds-eye view

    Can’t seem to get the above link to centre on the building in question, but top left.

  • #801431

    Anonymous

    It used to be the sports hall and at the moment the squash courts are still in use. Some of it has an ancillary use related to research; the plan though is to convert part of it into a student center, some societies in TCD are well provided for, others are not and there is no student run venue for small concerts, discos etc. Part of Luce Hall will be converted for those purposes, when the money has been raised, I guess through philanthropy and a student levy. There is also planning permission to build student accommodation between Luce Hall and the street line. I amn’t sure if that is going ahead, probably, it will be considered as part of the larger Pearse Street development.

    Although I initially disliked it, I have grown fond of Luce Hall over the years, its rigor and honesty is appealing and like many unloved buildings of its era I think half the problem is that it isn’t maintained. It is at least a building that was designed with some aesthetic ambition, unlike say the Simon Perry building beside it. The thing I hate about Luce Hall is the gap between it and Pearse Street, that’s the bit road widening was supposed to take.

  • #801432

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    unlike say the Simon Perry building beside it.

    Well, Prof. Perry was an engineer not an architect.

    I’d much rather see the Luce Hall replaced rather than reburbished & built around. I didn’t realise the squash courts were still in use. Was the new sports centre built without squash courts?

    And speaking of the new sports centre who designed the drainage at the pool level? 3 showers with 2 drains, neither of which drain fast enough. 3 people showering results in ankle deep waste water from whoever is showering next door 😮 Oh and the changing village is often so hot & humid it’s almost impossible to dry off.

  • #801433

    Anonymous

    Well Luce Hall is one of the few newish buildings that will survive the Pearse Street development: the Simon Perry building, that charming red brick Civil Engineering building and the two student accommodation buildings that are edgeways on to the rugby pitch, will all go. I used to like these two but these days I feel that there is something mean and well prissy about them and I won’t be sorry to see them come down.

  • #801434

    Anonymous

    Ewww Sarsfield. Also who would have thought Trinity students to be such exhibitionists? Fair enough the view looking out of the gym towards the former Academy cinema is pretty pleasant, but having hoards of passers-by looking back at you in your distressed state is not something that appeals to this poster.

    The interior of the Perry building is even more of an engineer’s dream than the exterior, as difficult as that may be to imagine. Not a fan of Luce Hall either have to say, notjim. It’s not sculpturally Brutalist – just plain, cheap and ugly! Agreed the Pearse Street elevation needs to be resolved. Also I like the new accommodation blocks, and the red brick lol.

    One of the better stories of 18th century Trinners students is their rampaging around the city. As Constantia Maxwell recounts (one sometimes wonders if that should be recalls): “Sometimes they placed gunpowder squibs on the lamps in several streets at once, contriving by fuses to have them all burst at the same time. Whole streets would thus be left in darkness, to the dismay of the populace.” Also: “Sometimes they threw large crackers into the china and glass shops, delighting to see the terrified shopkeepers trampling on their wares for fear of an explosion”.

    Wouldn’t happen nowadays of course – such exertion tends to ruffle the hair gel and smear fake tan. Tsk.

    Well at last the Rubrics is finally undergoing conservation works – huge scaffolding went up last weekend (hope to get a pic). The windows to its main west elevation have been the worst in the college for many years, so perhaps it is just these that are being tackled, though some masonry lintels are in poor condition too. In spite of the Rubrics being the oldest building on campus, dating from c. 1700, pretty much its entire famous facade dates from the 1890s, not just the gables as is often stated.

    The entire facade would appear to be of machine-made red brick, with the day-glo orange surrounds probably later again from the 1930s. The windows also primarily date from two replacement waves in the early and late 19th century from what I’ve made out, though there could be the very odd late 18th century straggler in the mix too. Much more from the late 18th century survives to the rear, testament to the damage inflicted on west-facing elevations in Ireland.

    Also that picture of ivy on the West Front as promised – this during Michael Collins’ funeral in 1922.

  • #801435

    Anonymous

    Well “fond of” rather than “fan of”, lets be clear.

    I love the pictures of the Salmon statue, it really is so incredibly lively.

    Here is what we were told about the restoration works: “The Rubrics was constructed circa 1720 and is amongst the oldest surviving buildings on the college campus. The restoration will involve work to the chimneys, the roof, the brickwork, the stonework and the windows and will be overseen and supervised by John J OConnell conservation architect.” Do you know when the bookends were added btw?

  • #801436

    Anonymous

    Oh excellent – a full scale job. It was badly needed. The Rubrics is about 1700 though – the other ranges (since demolished) were 1720s. For once we got left with the older one.

    Yes the bookends were added in the 1980s I think – indeed possibly even as late as the early 90s. Because the Rubrics was originally only one range of a square of three similar buildings, and directly abutted the Old Library to one end and the (Darley?) classical corner to the north, it depended on the support of these structures. When the corners were opened up – perhaps the 1890s? – the ends of the Rubrics range were left exposed, and were buckeling badly by the late 20th century, so the crude modern brick bookends were built up against the gable walls.

  • #801437

    Anonymous

    This is the bird’s eye view of Trinity by Byron (dated1780) from one of those Eddie McParland pamphlets of the 1970s (cost 98p)

    The full Library Square, as described by Graham, with Rubricks range at top right.

  • #801438

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Design for proposed additions to Trinity College, Dublin: by Thomas Rickman, (1776-1841) west or front elevation of an entrance building with a bell tower.

    http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJkdWJsaW4iOw==&pg=33

  • #801439

    Anonymous

    I wonder where that would have been, hardly on the site of the railings and the lawns in front of existing west front on College Green! That would send notjim over the edge.

    I presume it was intended as a replacement for the west range of Library Square where the campanile is now. They seem to have wrestled with different proposals for that site for ages.

    This is a print (also from the Eddie McParland booklet) of a Chamber’s proposal for a focal point at this location integrated into a scheme to refront the existing brick range.

  • #801440

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    The Rickman design is from 1834

  • #801441

    Anonymous

    I went to photograph the 1916 memorial today, as another obscure TCD photo, and found it had been discretely replaced since last I looked.

    In memory of 2373 Private Arthur Charles Smith 4th Hussars Killed in Action on 29th April 1916 during The Rebellion in Dublin. Erected by The Officers and Cadets of the Dublin University Officers Training Corps. Original Memorial Replaced by The Queen’s Royal Hussars Association 2007

  • #801442

    Anonymous

    That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?

    It’s a pity that our ‘British’ heritage has to keep such a low profile. Take note however, that this does not mean that I’m softening my attitude to the front lawns!

    I wanted to watch Educating Rita when it was on the box a few weeks ago, but even with the sound turned down, there’s only so much Julie Walters you can take. There should have been some good shots of the Pearse Street end of Westland Row taken from the old ramp at Westland Row station in it, but they must be in the second half.

    Can you write away and get stills from movies, does anyone know, or do you have to try and do it youself?

  • #801443

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?

    Indeed, and partly behind a tree!

  • #801444

    Anonymous

    Rubrics with scaffold, the west side is scaffolded, they started the east side today.

  • #801445

    Anonymous

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    Leaving aside issues with the lawns, the Pearse St. block and the clientele, the biggest reservation I’d have with Trinity is that there’s no tangible connection with the pre-Georgian heritage of the place.

    Trinity was an Elizabethan foundation (1592 or whatever) yet nobody, in the succeeding centuries, ever thought that it might be nice to keep a corner of a building somewhere from this foundation period. And what about it’s predecessor, the priory of All Hallows, could they not have retained a side chapel, a couple of monks cells, something, just to connect with that layer of the site’s history. This need to destroy everything old fashioned seems to have started very early.

    The Dineley drawing from 1681 shows the pre-Georgian extent of the buildings.

    The least we’ll be expecting when notjim gets elevated to provost is that he gets in a few archaeologists to expose the medieval foundations of that tower and steeple, which McParland has placed somewhere between the campanile and the Rubricks.

    That would be a start!

    If some piece of lawn has to get dug up . . .

  • #801446

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    True, but it does prompt the question- are they blocking off the path between the Berkeley and the Printing House? Short-cutting cyclists with an aversion to cobbles are curious.

    I remembered earlier this old photo I had on my computer. It’s one of my favourite views in the college (not a great quality scan, alas).

  • #801447

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    GrahamH said he was going to get photographs, I was saving him the trouble; in fact I thought it looked rather good. I do keep my photographs small to compensate for their poor quality!

    It is a huge pity there is nothing pre-Georgian, have you every been to the other Trinity, in Cambridge? In fact, it is weak on Georgian, Cambridge is generally, Trinity steps straight from the Wren library to the Victorian buildings, but there is something so moving about the scale and texture of Great Court.

  • #801448

    Anonymous

    Yes it would be great if some excavations could be carried out – a shame the opportunity doesn’t appear to have been taken back in the 1970s when much of the cobbling was relaid in Parliament Square.

    Some quick pictures of the scaffolding (taken before notjim’s, and some the same. Great minds etc).

    Big job.

    Also one of the many late 18th century windows to the rear (east) elevation that retains much of its original crown glass, none of which appears to survive on the main facade (not the best pic).

    Walking along in the evening is always best, as all of the shimmering panes in the shade catch the bright sky beautifully.
    Scaffolding is starting to go up at this side too.

  • #801449

    Anonymous

    So the College has just applied for permission for the Digital Hub building, this will be a four story upwards extension of the Arts Building, on top of the Edmund Burke lecture theatre, that is, on your left as you enter the college from Nassau St, behind the 1937 Reading Room, which will be linked to it by an underground passage. The architects are Mc Cullough Mulvin.

  • #801450

    Anonymous

    Just to show where the new building is to go, on top of Edmund Burke in the Arts Block on the left of the Nassau St entrance as you come in.

    It will be behind 1937 Reading Room and connected to it by an underground passage, I guess it will cease being a graduate library.

  • #801451

    Anonymous

    “I guess it will cease being a graduate library.”

    That seems like a strange conclusion to reach, why do you say that? There is nothing in the site notice that suggests a change of use. Surely the new building would in some way be an extension of its functions if they are making a link to it.
    The position of the edmund burke theatre has always been a problem I think, it’s an obstacle without properly completing the square, it seems right (or logical) to build there. 4 average height stories would make it about the same height as the old library and probably below that of the arts building.

  • #801452

    Anonymous

    Ok that was only a guess, but since they are building a corridor my guess is that they will include the Reading Room, either as an impressive seminar space.

  • #801453

    Anonymous

    This has a planning number now
    4064/08
    so it is
    http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=4064/08

    The documents aren’t scanned yet. Here is the site notice:

    PROTECTED STRUCTURE – The development comprises the construction of a new four storey over 2.1m high ground floor services undercroft Humanities Research building, named the ‘Long Room Hub’, (area 1309sqm) at the North side of the Arts Building (a Protected Structure) facing Fellows Square including minor alterations to two protected structures – the Arts Building and 1937 Reading Room.

    The Humanities Research building, of plan area 34m x 10.6m, will be finished in stonework and have rooflights projecting above a parapet level; it will be built above the Northern end of the Edmund Burke Theatre within the Arts Building complex and will overhang the northern, western and eastern edges of the single storey roof of the Edmund Burke Theatre, creating a services undercroft which will be enclosed at ground level to act as a service zone.

    Alterations to the Edmund Burke Theatre will comprise removal of the plantroom and associated parapet wall which project above the main Theatre roof level and their replacement with a new roof at a lower level to match the existing flat roof level of the Edmund Burke Theatre.

    The entrance level of the proposed Humanities Research Building will be approximately 2.1m above the current ground level of Fellows Square; the entrance level will be accessed by an open staircase and lift from Fellows Square; the overall height from ground level to parapet level including undercroft will be 16.25m.

    The development will include the construction of an underground corridor linking the proposed Humanities Research Building and the basement of the 1937 Reading Room (a protected structure), including associated openings required for access to the basement of the 1937 Reading Room; the underground corridor will be accessed through a new staircase at the west end of the Humanities Research Building.

    The development also comprises ancillary works including the development of a new garden on the roof of the Edmund Burke Theatre incorporating the removal of a planter box and the formation of a new door in the north facade of the main Arts Building at upper ground floor level to provide access to the proposed new building, routing of service cables from the proposed building to the existing centrally located Arts Building plant room at lower ground level and adjustments to existing below ground level fire escape staircases from the Edmund Burke Theatre to accommodate the new building.

  • #801454

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Still no sign of the documents online

  • #801455

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    When are the docs for this going to appear online?

    Web Reference
    Application Date: 14-Aug-2008
    Last Date for Observations: 17-Sep-2008

    Today 28-August and no sign.
    Not that I’m appealing, I would like to see drawings for publication as a news item

  • #801456

    Anonymous

    Apparently there’s one guy who does all the scanning, and if he’s not in, it doesn’t get done.

  • #801457

    Anonymous

    @devin wrote:

    Apparently there’s one guy who does all the scanning, and if he’s not in, it doesn’t get done.

    What? That’s madness.

    The DCC website seems to have really deteriorated again in recent months – are other people finding this, or is it just certain browsers?

  • #801458

    Anonymous

    @hutton wrote:

    The DCC website seems to have really deteriorated again in recent months – are other people finding this, or is it just certain browsers?

    I find it painfully slow most of the time, but as you say, it could be just certain browsers. I still prefer to go into the counter whenever possible, use their ink etc.

  • #801459

    Anonymous

    4064/08

    nice new model at DCC McCullough Mulvin Architects

  • #801460

    Anonymous

    Thanks for posting that missarchi! I guess it is almost predictable, a Mc Cullough Mulvin building with those modish tall and thin irregularly spaced windows. I am surprised though by how separate from the arts building it is, it doesn’t look like it impinges on the figurative beyond the first step; it is narrower than I expected.

    I amn’t sure if I like it or not; it would be great to hear views from those who are better at reading models.

  • #801461

    Anonymous

    no students in the afternoon sun infront of the book of kells

  • #801462

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    I guess it is almost predictable, a Mc Cullough Mulvin building with those modish tall and thin irregularly spaced windows. .

    It looks like a dead ringer for Grafton’s Merrion Row building, especially the Hugenot Cemetry elevation! It’s hard to tell from the model (still no documents scaned up on the DCC web site), but I imagine the finish is stone here also.

    The building looks like it’s been designed to fill out the gap between the the west end of the Library and the east elevation of the Exam Hall, above the reading room, when viewed from the main square, which is a brave move that may not please tradionalists and film-set location finders.

    Having a narrow, stand alone, frontage to Fellows’ Square will give it an ‘object in the space’ quality rather than a ‘termination of the space’ quality, which may have been the only option, given the presence of the Reading Room at this end of the square.

    As an object, it does look pretty crisp and clean. I wouldn’t fault it for being a cousin of the Grafton building, (and their own Lincoln Place in-fill), that’s how tradition works, so long as it’s an advance and a refinement of these precedents and not just a piece of formula.

    McCullough Mulvin have written the book on urban Dublin and the loss of tradition, so they should be a safe pair of hands for this kind of thing.

    p.s. notjim: You could do worse than keep them in mind for the professorship when, as one of your first acts as provost, you create a faculty of architecture in Trinity, now that every regional Tech. seems to have one,
    that is, after gunter naturally.

  • #801463

    Anonymous

    It is very much in the idiom of the above mentioned buildings, including the carved out entrance portal. The random window theme, while now commonplace, holds a particular resonance in the midst of ranks of classically ordered fenestration and is thus apt in this context. As such I think the building has the potential to work quite well. Presumably limestone will be used as cladding – a nice bit of muddy Dublin Calp one thinks will not find favour.

    Of perhaps greater interest the positioning, where it would appear to advance beyond the building line of the Old Library. Is this Berkeley vs Museum Round II? I don’t see the justification for this, both relative to the Old Library, and the new building’s wider relationship with the square, into which it seems to want to injerject rather than act as a foil to.

  • #801464

    Anonymous

    McCullough Mulvin have been playing with this language for a while now, long before Merrion Row – just looking through their website – Lincoln place for a start, Oakpark (rather obscure project), Freiburg library competition, Digital Hub and Newmarket framework plans, etc. One would expect that they have refined this typology by now, there does infact appear to be a strong rhythm to the facade, not as rigid as the grafton exercise, but certinally not “irregularly spaced windows”.
    The presence of the reading room is somewhat problematic, it negates the possibility of ever terminating that space correctly, I fail to see the value of it, it was built at the same time as Corbu was doing his thing, and used much of the same technology, and is only in the region of 30years older than the arts block. Yet it looks old, so apparently that’s enough to warrent protecting it. It looks good to the tourists I suppose. However given that it is there and won’t be moving anytime soon, the “object in space” appears to be the only way to sucessfully treat any new intervention there.

  • #801465

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Agreed – it would have been interesting if the reading room was removed – it would have allowed for the insertion of a modern building into Parliament Square. After all it’s a lovely mixture of architecture and styles from the west front, to Chambers work, Lanyon’s campanile, the Library, and the Rubics and Graduates building. A new instertion from McCullough Mulvin, whom I’m personally a great fan of, would have been an exciting concept. It would also have created a really nice collection of buildings on the Nassau Street side of the library – the Arts block, ABK’s library, Burgh’s Library and the new building.
    A chance lost.

  • #801466

    Anonymous

    I have to say I’d hate to see the 37 removed.

    I agree with Graham’s concerns regarding the positioning.

    I grabbed the attached image from the excellent bird’s eye view on maps.live.com and as you can see the 37 is quite carefully positioned.

    However the line it establishes in the direction of Nassau St. is broken by that bit sticking out of the arts block. Strangely this small part of the arts block seems to deliberately mirror the distinctive shape of the 37 while lopsidedly ignoring it’s position. Maybe it’s just an accident of the perspective.

    I would prefer to see an attempt to try to reinforce the 37’s line back to the arts block attempting to complete the rectangle. It would require removing that bit of the arts block but from the photo of the model it looks like the proposal involves this anyway.

    I’m sure a reconfiguration like this would not require any reduction in the amount of floor space created by the new building.

  • #801467

    Anonymous

    I can’t say I share the concerns about the positioning, look at the above aerial view: the front line of the exam hall relative to the library and to the reading room; nothing lines up. The character of trinity’s spaces is of regular, symmetric buildings placed somewhat irregularly that describe a square, without emphatically being a square, the overlapping of the buildings sets up the compression and release between and the diagonal views across them: refer to the image posed on the previous page of this thread by cestiphon looking at the corner of the library between the museum building and the berkeley. The new building appears to hold the line of the arts building which it belongs more to, than to the 1937.

  • #801468

    Anonymous

    There are many in the college who would like to remove, or even move, the 1937; it is an interesting building, but a poor component of parliament square. However, it is not considered likely that any such scheme would get planning. The possibility of extending the 1937 was, I believe, also investigated, but nothing satisfactory was proposed.

  • #801469

    Anonymous

    I remember seeing an aerial view of trinity taken in the 60s, prior to the building of the arts block, which show the magnetic observatory standing exactly in the place wher this new building is to go, but this was moved at some point stone by stone out to UCD and now stands in one of those obscure, don’t-go-there-alone-at-night, wooded areas behind the library.

    http://www.ucd.ie/englishanddrama/film/film_observatory.htm

  • #801470

    Anonymous

    Yes, it a great pity the magnetic observatory was given away, the portico of the 1937 building, the memorial part, which I think was build first, was modeled on the observatory.

  • #801471

    Anonymous

    The full set of documents, scanned to the usual level of illegibility, is now available at

    http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=4064/08

  • #801472

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    The reading room for those not familiar with Trinity’s ivory landscape….

  • #801473

    Anonymous

    and according to the planning documents, the reason for linking the lrh and the 1937 building with an underground passageway is that this will allow important manuscripts to be brought from the long room and the manuscripts room to a digitization center in the lrb; the 1937 building is already linked underground to the old library building, as indeed is the Leakey library. This seems like overkill to me, empire building, why not locate the digitization room somewhere in the old library building.

  • #801474

    Anonymous

    joined at the hip indeed…

    have you heard about the emergency underground passageway for the provost when the students riot about fees?
    😀

  • #801475

    Anonymous

    A couple more shots of the model.


  • #801476

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    p.s. notjim: You could do worse than keep them in mind for the professorship when, as one of your first acts as provost, you create a faculty of architecture in Trinity, now that every regional Tech. seems to have one,
    that is, after gunter naturally.

    I know how childish it is that I have actually thought about what I would do if I were provost, but I think about it all the time and one thing I would do is try and persuade DIT and NCAD to become part of the University of Dublin, with a view to reorganizing the three institutions into a single university with “TCD” becoming effectively the name for, more or less, what American universities call FAS, the faculty of arts and science. That would give UD if not TCD a school of architecture by default and Dublin a university with proper scope and size.

  • #801477

    Anonymous

    Isn’t there already a relationship between Trinity and DIT re architecture degrees? I thought the University of Dublin awarded the degrees? Perhaps this has changed, but I think it was true in the early ’90s at any rate.

    Also, nice to see more shots of the model. I like the building, but I’m not sure if it’s the location for it / right building for that location- it doesn’t close the square sufficiently for my liking. Too much the modernist ‘object in space’, I fear.

    Could there be other reasons for its form? Views from the Provost’s House towards the Old Library, for example?

    Also, I think I’d prefer if the east end of it were at least in line with the west end wall of the Library, if not pulled back even further to open the vista through to Front Square. It seems that it currently projects slightly beyond (east of) the line of the west end of the Library.

    Re my photo above, mentioned by spoil_sport- I think something similar to the Berkeley treatment should have been considered for the corner. As proposed, it appears to be recessed, but a more pronounced stepping might allow the building to close the square whilst keeping the vista to Front Square open. Unless the plan is deliberately to close the vista, thereby making the route a little less clear to the occasional visitor…

  • #801478

    Anonymous

    Having taken another look just now, I think there’ll be sufficient clearance for the line of sight from the ramp to Front Square.

    (I would have taken a few pics but I think another Archiseeker was on to me. Thankfully, I’m good at looking like a lost tourist at short notice. ;))

    I still think the building should close the square a bit more.

  • #801479

    Anonymous

    @ctesiphon wrote:

    I think another Archiseeker was on to me.

    Don’t you just hate when that happens.

    I can’t agree about the squares spoil sport. Irregular they may be, but this is mainly derived through the squares’ relationship with each other, not of themselves. All of the squares have a coherence of form once you’re within them. This would not be the case with Fellows’ Square if this proposed building overlaps the Library. A rather crude device if emerging from the Arts Block, that for the sake of pulling back a few metres would keep everyone happy. Saying that, it may not overlap – perhaps someone could confirm this.

    And another disagreement for good measure, I’d hate to see an infill building in place of the Reading Room. Not so much for the loss of the building – though of course of merit and a little charmer – but the impact on the wider Parliament/Library Square. If ever there was a case for the simplistic argument – modern is just inappropriate – this is it. At least 50% of the desirability of this space is its all-engulfing historical appearance. This should be maintained.

  • #801480

    Anonymous

    @grahamh wrote:

    Don’t you just hate when that happens.

    Que? You know where can I buy… how you say… umbrella? 😉

    @grahamh wrote:

    Saying that, it may not overlap – perhaps someone could confirm this.

    This shows it- they’ve conveniently included a line for us too.

    I’m coming back around to thinking that the whole building should be in line with the east end of the 1937 or, at most, halfway between the line of the 1937 and the west end of the Library.

  • #801481

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    @grahamh wrote:

    If ever there was a case for the simplistic argument – modern is just inappropriate – this is it. At least 50% of the desirability of this space is its all-engulfing historical appearance. This should be maintained.

    if that attitude had prevailed, you’d never have got Chambers buildings, or the Campanile etc etc.

    The joy of Trinity is the layering of different architecture styles over time – its like a parade of great architecture from different times – 18th, 19th, 20th c ….

  • #801482

    Anonymous

    Yip – that’s the classic counter argument, but with the advent of modernisim and modern production techniques there’s a very clear difference between what most of us now deem ‘old’ and ‘new’. As strange as it may seem to a Victorian, all of the buildings of these two squares to the average punter and architectural historian alike now meld into one, albeit only on a certain level, where once they were perceived so very differently relative to each other. This gives these two squares a very special coherence of character with their added value of time, that could be argued ought to be protected.

  • #801483

    Anonymous

    “All of the squares have a coherence of form once you’re within them”

    OK, but define for me the current west end of fellows square. Is it the end of the old library? or the arts block? or the 1937.
    The new building holds the line of the arts block, which enhances the validity of that line. The end line of the old library was already broken by the arts building, refer to the plan above, this is an argument that should have been had then, not now.

    I can’t see how any new proposal coul properly close the square without upsetting the defenders of the 1937.

    “modern is just inappropriate”

    I really don’t accept this proposition, as was said, all the vrious buildings “meld into one”, however the inportant part of that statment is “now”. Of course thay do, we’re failing to look past our own perception, we’re seeing it in the contemporary. I can imaging a child of the 18th century disapproving of the new fangled architecture of the 19th. I also think we’re failing to distinguish between “modern” and it’s bastard offspring -trendy, fad, fashionable, cool, etc. “modern” does not necessarily mean it will conflict. The 1937 is an R.C. and steel structure with what is effectively a stone dressing, or skin. it is in effect a “modern” building, ie uses “modern production echniques” (in a funny way it preempts pomo.)

  • #801484

    Anonymous

    I don’t understand how the new building holds the line of the Arts Block given that it continues on behind it. Perhaps you could expand on that. Also, the line of the Arts Block does not break Fellows’ Square, it merely continues it beyond the plane – and something it in any event acknowledges through the emphatic entrance directly opposite the end pavilion of the Library. That is not remotely the same thing as overlapping an existing building, and nothing near the impact it has on a classical structure that depends so heavily on a sense of symmetry. Similarly the enormous massing of the Library and its wider importance in the development of architecture in Ireland is such that should not be compromised by the intrusion of this new building, and especially at such close quarters. There is no parallel to be drawn with the Arts Block whatever. Indeed if anything the Arts Block created Fellow’s Square, it being little more than a green space with incidental structures previously.

    I do appreciate the long term view in the understanding of architecture regarding the front squares, and would welcome such modern interjections almost anywhere else on the Trinity campus. Perhaps a more apt analogy than the 1937 would be the Museum Building, which could be argued may not have come about if such a viewpoint was taken. But the development of the front squares and indeed arguably the Museum were all informed by a classical language, however watered down or varied, as were the societies of their ages so aborbed in that culture. There is a marked difference today, as there was in the 1930s, where as mentioned the Reading Room is a thoroughly modern structure but in a classical shroud. A structure of the ilk of the first terminal at Dublin airport could have been slotted in here back then too, but it was decided to acknowledge the surroundings.

    If there was a more obvious, more deserving site in the front squares for a contemporary build I think it would be both welcome and very worthwhile. But purely for the sake of trying to make a modern statement on that tiny site whilst disrupting the mellowed character of the squares, it simply isn’t worth it. On balance the pros of leaving as is far outweigh the cons.

  • #801485

    Anonymous

    (You are talking about the entrance from Nassau street?) Well no, the entrance is not infact “directly opposite” the end pavillion of the library. And there in lies the problem. The east wall of the edmund burke podium “overlaps” (or breaks or steps in front of, whatever you want to call it) with the end line of the old library. Look at he plan posted on the previous page, I think it’s quiet clear.
    I mean the east elevation of the new building appears to be flush with the east wall of the edmund burke podium, on the afore mentioned plan the line outside it is a rooflight which I am disregarding as it only rises to waist level, it is the wall behind that (which is the line the new building sits on) that is the real perceivable boundary to fellows square.
    Consider the alternative. the new building does sit back a few meters, and dosen’t overlap with the library, we now have a building that sits back from the edge of the podium, thereby relegating it to an extent from the space, this would for me be a much weaker proposition.
    I can see we’re not going to agree on this….
    I can only restate that I really don’t think the overlap with the old library will negatively impact on the it’s reading, and I still don’t see the value of the 1937, We allow our surroundings to dictate rather than inform far too often.

  • #801486

    Anonymous

    And again “modern” and “statment” are not mutually exclusive, nor does “modern” negate “mellow”

  • #801487

    Anonymous

    I agree.

    However the entrance to the Arts Block is directly opposite the end pavilion of the Library. I don’t see how that can be refuted – it is opposite it! If you refer to the Edmund Burke intruding on that to some degree fair enough, but the ramp and wider entrance bay of the Arts Block directly acknowledges the end point of the Library.

    Also I find it extraordinary that one can define a stump of a bunker rising out of the ground as the definitive boundary of a square over a soaring three storey behemoth of one of the most important buildings in the state. It is the Library first, the Arts Block second, the Berkeley third and The Stump fourth that define the square, in that order. To suggest that arguably the most important building on the campus be overlapped for the ancillary remnant of a sunken building is quite frankly preposterous. If this needs to be altered, then this should be done.

  • #801488

    Anonymous

    This new building looks rather out of place but its a small space and it does look better than the whole of the art block.

    I for one loath the art block, theres nothing wrong with its shape but its so ugly, i would prefare if it was a nicer colour, for a college theres no need to have a building that looks like granite rain clouds! It needs a bit of colour to it, or a bit of a clean, its one of the worst parts of the campus, and there isnt really any bad parts. Apart from the sports hall.

    Im not a campus student as nursing is down the road in the old GAS building which we simply call D’Olier street, but i really dont like the arts block it really does look dirty. Now dont get me wrong i like the kinds of buildings that are like it, like the buildings in the simon fraser university that are allways used in sci-fi programmes, but the arts block is pretty ugly.

    Its a nice design but its interior is dated, cracked, dark and generally not very aesthetically pleasing, its almost as dank as the outside. The libary thankfully escapes this as its connected too the rest of the libary complex.

  • #801489

    Anonymous

    GrahamH, yes its roughly opposite but please take out a ruler and draw a straigt line from either the east or west edge of the ramp of the arts block to the old library and see what you get. They don’t line up.
    Perhaps we’re not on the same page, the original question was to define the west boundary of fellows square, that the old library is the dominant side and definitive boundary of fellows square was never in doubt.
    The “stump” is -and particularly when entering from Nassau street- a real boundary and I cannot understand how you could sugest that any new building that wants to go on top of it should just ignore it. That the new building chooses this edge reinforces this as a boundary. However, and here is the key point, it dosen’t bother me. The new building and the library will overlap. Most buildings in the campus overlap in to some degree (this was my earlier point about irregular placement). Apart from perhaps partiallly obscuring the corner of the old library from certain positions on the ramp, ie if one were hugging the wall as they entered for instance; the overlap will not affect the reading of the arts block elevation from any other position on fellow’s square. The tourists will still be able to get their photographs.

  • #801490

    Anonymous

    @denton wrote:

    . Now dont get me wrong i like the kinds of buildings that are like it, like the buildings in the simon fraser university that are allways used in sci-fi programmes,.

    Denton: I don’t agree with you about the arts block; but perhaps of more interest to those who don’t know it, this is SFU, one of the most gob-smacking university complexes I have visited.

    The whole campus looks like this and, indeed, gives the impression of having been produced in a single pour.

  • #801491

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    Denton: I don’t agree with you about the arts block; but perhaps of more interest to those who don’t know it, this is SFU, one of the most gob-smacking university complexes I have visited.

    The whole campus looks like this and, indeed, gives the impression of having been produced in a single pour.

    It is amazing looking, and thats not even the bit from tv!

    The square with a lake has been used in Andromeda, Stargate, BattleStar Galactica and some movies.

    I like the design of the arts block it is a good building, but its interior and exterior are not pleasant, it just doesnt look nice. Its a good design but its just so depressing in its colour and texture. It looks even worse in dark rainy weather.

    Unlike the berkley which even for blank concrete looks amazing.:cool:

  • #801492

    Anonymous

    I’m not getting involved, I just thought I’d post up that old aerial view of Fellows’ Square from before the Arts block was built (forward of the corner of the Berkley)

    continue . . .

  • #801493

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    You tend to forget what an alien insertion the Berkeley was

  • #801494

    Anonymous

    @paul Clerkin wrote:

    The joy of Trinity is the layering of different architecture styles over time – its like a parade of great architecture from different times – 18th, 19th, 20th c ….

    and the millennium movement 😉 they have the quality and skills but would it be possible to be ornate every addition has been Grey and more grey what about some extruded pattern relief? or no budget/time?

  • #801495

    Anonymous

    Permission for the long room hub has been granted btw.

  • #801496

    Anonymous

    So people accuse the college of being isolated from the town but here we see that tcd has acquired from dcc the habit of replacing custodial care with clunky and obtrusive, but probably ineffective infrastructure, to whit the huge bins, lots of them, perversely located and the old bins still in place: a mess.

  • #801497

    Anonymous

    The space that has been created under the railway arches and the new entrance from Pearse street are good additions to this side of town.

    Westland row in general has been better planned (or less fecked up) than Amiens street station I think.

  • #801498

    Anonymous

    Agreed; but CIE (or whatever) should spend some serious money on showing a bit of tlc for the viaduct and the station itself – all that great space under the parabolic roof of the train shed could be used to create a stunning eating, shopping, drinking venue (after all, that’s what we do these days).

  • #801499

    Anonymous

    28/12/2008

    Well the Rubrics has had its shroud of scaffolding recently removed, in what must be noted as a relatively quick project turnaround of just five months. It feels like the job only started last week.

    The project involved a complete rehabilitation of the exterior, ranging from reroofing, reflashing, repointing, cleaning of brickwork, replacement of decayed sandstone and terracotta elements, repair of window lintels, refurbishment of decayed windows, and restoration of rainwater goods. All the basics.

    As pictured in the summer, the terrace looked grim – if nonetheless appealing.

    The transformation, while fundamentally the result of conservation necessity, has greatly improved the range’s appearance.

    Before

    After

    Dating from the turn of 1700, the entire range was refaced in Victorian machine-made brick in 1894, including the addition of the distinctive brick gables and chimneystacks. Therefore little of the original fabric survives to the exterior.

    The Victorian brick was cleaned and repointed with a lime mortar.

    While sandstone or teracotta elements were replaced where needed.

    The high rendered band of skirting at ground floor level conceals a more interesting layer. This (camera phone) picture was sneakily taken behind the scaffold when works were underway. The modern (probably cement) render was temporarily removed to reveal what appears to be original red brick dating to 1700.

    It’s likely the Victorians just rendered over it, and it was later replaced in cement in the 1980s. In these conservation works, the render was removed, a wire mesh applied across the whole area of old brick, and then a lime render reapplied. Presumably the wire mesh as much protects the original brick as it provides a decent gripping substrate.

    Complete.

  • #801500

    Anonymous

    The beautiful muddy limestone archways seen above are also almost certainly survivors from 1700 (excellent paint choice). The somewhat gawky detailing and use of sandstone dressings is characteristic of the late 17th and early 18th centuries. Sadly, the use of the native limestone-sandstone pairing rarely receives the attention of the later granite-Portland ensemble that so dominated in public construction from the second quarter of the 18th century. The former can be seen both at the Royal Hospital and at Dublin Castle (below), where Thomas Burgh’s arcade of 1712-1717 is now all that remains of the early classical rebuilding of the complex.

    The similarity is striking. Did Burgh have a role in designing the Rubrics?

    In the 1890s refacing of the Rubrics, the 1700 window opes were aggrandised with projecting reveals, with the original granite sills pragmatically retained in the centre. It seems the Victorians simply extended them in brick and rendered over the lot into unified sills. In the restoration works, all render and dodgy extensions were removed and additional granite spliced on the end of every sill.

    The window lintels appear to have been rendered rather than entirely replaced. Previously they appeared to be a redish concrete composite rather than sandstone, but it was difficult to tell. I’m not entirely sure why grey render was used, but it works well.

    (nice bit of cylinder glass there)

    The majority of windows on the main west-facing range appear to date to the 1840s. This would tie in with a comprehensive replacement in the early 19th century, as we have seen time and time again across Dublin where old-fashioned structures of the early 1700s were updated at this time. These windows also tend to have more exposed sash boxes, further suggesting they were clumsily recycled (below). Quite a few, however, also date from the 1890s refacing.

    From what I can make out, these have all been beautifully and sensitively reconditioned, with nearly all of the original glass retained.

    The picturesque chimneys have also been repointed (extremely exposed up there), cleaned and the pots capped. It appears the top plinths required rebuilding, though this may have been done in the 1980s.

  • #801501

    Anonymous

    To the rear, the pebbledash finish has been left as was.

    However, the brick gables here were given the same treatment as the front façade, and the roof – as to the front – beautifully reslated. It’s difficult to make out if the original slate was cleaned or a new slate was sourced. It was also completely reflashed.

    Delightful casement windows to the gables.

    There’s a much more varied array of sash windows around here, with most significantly older than the main elevation on account of their sheltered east facing location. For example, the refined window to the left below dates to c. 1820s, while the window to the right dates to c. 1750s.

    This muddled array comprise windows of c. 1790s to the top and bottom left, while top right is of c. 1840s and bottom right of c. 1820s.

    And as for this remarkable pair with chunky glazing bars, again dating to c. 1750s and probably contemporaneous to the building of Parliament Square.

    Quite a few of these cutsey pairs survive at ground floor level.

    Alas not everything is quite perfect. As Devin has highlighted before, this window screams fake old glass with its smooth even ripples. The sticker in the corner further suggests this, and a number of windows have stickers and suspicious panes…

    One wonders how much, or if any, historic glass has been faked like it was in Front Square. Devin was absolutely correct about Front Square – I have it on authority from within Trinity that a significant amount of historic glass was lost in the recent ‘conservation’ works to the windows of the main ranges. Where glass couldn’t be removed it was simply smashed out and replaced with fake old glass. Now, it is accepted within window restoration that not all glass can be salvaged if it’s resolutely puttied to a decayed timber member that requires replacement. Therefore the question to be asked is just how much effort, if any, during the Front Square works was put into safely salvaging as much glass as possible?

  • #801502

    Anonymous

    The 1980s bookends to each end were left as was. Nothing much can be done with these short of a substantial refacing.

    All in all a job extremely well done. Picturesque doesn’t work particularly well with a veneer of soot and clumsy accretions; these works have great enhanced the appearance of the range as well as secured its fabric for many years to come.

    By contrast, granite takes on the urban environment so much better. A dash of winter sun helps matters of course…

  • #801503

    Anonymous

    Graham, fantastic photographs and analysis as ever, but somebody’s going to have to explain the concept of holidays to you 🙂

    On the Rubricks itself, projecting brick window surrounds were an early feature, the ones at Beaulieu House (1660) and the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham, (1680) both had slight outward projections of the head of the brick surround beyond the line of the uprights, what do you make of the light coloured window surrounds in the distant early photographs of the Library Square buildings, were they rendered brickwork? (are they wide enough?), or stone?

    Presumably, in the projecting window surrounds at the Rubricks, the Victorian make-over re-worked an existing feature? There must be a drawing of the original detail, or a close up photograph, somewhere!

  • #801504

    Anonymous

    gunter and GrahamH: gobsmacked as ever – the compliments of the season and the paper hats from the crackers to you both!
    PS My flying Advent visit convinced me thet your city is in much better heart than anyone thinks, but don’t let that ‘haud ye back’ as we say here.

  • #801505

    Anonymous

    I don’t like those paper hats johnglas – they make my ears sweaty! Agreed that Dublin is a delight at Christmas though. I don’t think we appreciate just how centralised and compact everything is. All of the seasonal atmosphere is concentrated very potently over a pleasantly small area. By contrast for example to London, where if you forget something, there’s no going back!

    Back to Trinity, and I suspect render may be more likely as the original reveals, gunter. They look a tad ‘raw’ don’t they. Stone would also be rather lavish for what were modest residential ranges. I think there’s quite a few other photographs of Library Square that’d be worth looking up and zooming in on – alas I don’t have books to hand.

    The current window surrounds of the Rubrics have always struck me as odd – so very crudely executed (as with all the brickwork for that matter), and the sandstone/concrete lintels most strange. There was clearly a precendent of some kind that informed them, as you couldn’t come up with such a bizarre feature from scratch short of being somewhat derranged yourself. It seems as though they were contrived to prevent the windows being flush in the new facade, which may have been shallower than the earlier one.

    Interesting also to see the same model of chimney on ‘Rotten Row’ above. Presumably these were added at the same time as the Rubrics was remodelled in 1894? The photograph does look earlier though…

  • #801506

    Anonymous

    and it is rumoured that the multi-bites building has been bought at last meaning the college, including the dental hospital, owns everything on the island.

  • #801507

    Anonymous

    When/why was the rear of the rubrics pebble-dashed?

  • #801508

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Georgian perfection. How are we incapable of surpassing the architects and city planners of two centuries ago?

  • #801509

    Anonymous

    Well to be pedantic about it, only one of the Trinity buildings there is actually Georgian ;). And I suspect the average Georgian architect would have severe misgivings about the Rubrics being deemed as representative of their time; indeed one of the reasons they knocked buildings like it in Front Square. So perspectives do change – New Square for example would have been deemed far superior to the recently demolished Library Square that we now hanker after. Similarly, the Trinity campus would arguably be more picturesque now had the ‘architects and city planners of two centuries ago’ not had their way! Still, agreed, there is something about the dense, regimented character of the ranges that is difficult – if not impossible – to recreate in a modern idiom. The lack of use of brick, and in a crafted way, in modern construction is a particular failing I think.

    Darn you kinsella! I was hoping the pebbledash wouldn’t be raised :). I suspect it was added in the 1890s. Quite a few of the rear window widths are irregular, as with some floating long sills. It seems likely that a number of pragmatic tweaks had taken place over the years that necessitated the application of a unifying coat of pebbledash over the whole lot. Indeed not unlike these early Georgian houses on the Billy thread.

    Quite a few parallels there actually. It’s also possible the Rubrics covering was added earlier, perhaps in the 1840s, recalling that pebbledashing was also added to the Royal Hospital by Francis Johnston in the early 19th century.

  • #801510

    Anonymous

    Do you have pictures of every structure in Dublin?:eek:

  • #801511

    Anonymous

    Just not your house yet, fergal. I’d keep the curtains closed…

    A charming Edwardian view of the Provost’s Saloon c. 1910.

    Pleasantly free from the typical cluttering excesses of the era, things appear more reticent here – if staged within an inch of their life.

    The real delight is the ever-cumbersome early electric conversion :). A plentiful supply of sockets and switches about the panelling and pilasters too…

  • #801512

    Anonymous

    Does anybody know if the creation of the entrance from Nassau Street, as part of the construction of ABK’s Arts Block, was controversial at the time? I assume that breaking the perimeter in a second location was a big deal but I can’t find any information regarding Trinity’s policy on the restriction of access to the campus..

  • #801513

    Anonymous

    I saw Paul Koralek lecture on ABK’s work in TCD a few years ago (1999?), and he said that he considered the breaking of the wall and the creation of a new access point to be their single greatest achievement in their long involvement with the campus.

    From that, I think you could probably infer that the college authorities were somewhat resistant to the idea, though Mr Koralek did not elaborate.

    Whether TCD had a policy regarding restricting access, I don’t know. I do know that UCD, when moving to Belfield, had concerns about providing too many access points to the (at the time, 200 acre + and growing) campus, due to fears about public use of the ‘private’ land. This was in contrast to the policy of the English universities constructed under the auspices of the University Grants Committee in the 1950s and 1960s, where the grounds of those universities – Sussex, UEA (Norwich), York, etc. – were considered to be amenities for the adjacent towns/cities.

  • #801514

    Anonymous

    Well the generally policy is that, without a specific swipe card, you can’t get on to the college grounds without passing a porters’ lodge, which means, of course, it is expensive to introduce a new opening.

  • #801515

    Anonymous

    Very interesting, thanks. For my thesis project (laboratories and offices), just started, I am using the long site between the Ussher and Grafton’s extension to the Dept. of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering, probably leveling the Moyne Institute – hence my inquiry…

  • #801516

    Anonymous

    I have often thought about that site; what would be cool would be a modern take on the closes you get in medieval towns, Edinburgh being the great example, so build along the perimeter but with passages descending to small partly covered court-like spaces with views of College Park and a mixture of uses. There should absolutely be accommodation on the College side ground floor and please leave the Moyne Institute, there is space to build behind it; do something clever with it as Grafton did with the Engineering building.

  • #801517

    Anonymous

    Yes, leave the Moyne Institute alone. It is the prominent example of totalitarian architecture we have in this city.

  • #801518

    Anonymous

    Yes; that’s it, I have always thought of the Moyne Institute as a prominent example of something but could never quite find the word.

    Jack Hogan: are you also supposed to do internal layout because I can give you my thoughts on lab space if that would be useful?

  • #801519

    Anonymous

    Finally some common sense on student accommodation: TCD accommodates 10% of its students, city center universities typically accommodate over 40% and in the states even more. Universities are efficient land lords, they can force students to keep up with rent by refusing to give them their exam results until they pay of arrears, those few who genuinely are in difficulties, well the University tries to look after students in that situation anyway and a short term rent rebate is a good way to help. Student accommodate makes for a proper Unversity experience and helps the University acquire land that might in the future be used for other purposes. In the plan discussed below, TCD says it want 1000 rooms within half an hour of the College, I hope they get somewhere in town and I am sorry they are still obsessed with large scale provision without also pursuing piecemeal acquisition, but it is better than nothing.

    from http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2009/04/trinity-college-throws-developers.html who may repeating it from the Sunday Tribune.

    Trinity College throws developers a lifeline
    Developers with housing estates lying empty in Dublin are set for a huge fillip. Trinity College Dublin (TCD) has circulated a requirement for 1,000 student residential units by September 2010, and possibly as many as 3,500 by 2020.

    The student residences and associated facilities must be close to the university “or near a public transport system facilitating a maximum commute of approximately 30 minutes”, according to documents circulated by the university last week. That means areas as far away as Sandyford and Dun Laoghaire in the south of Dublin and Howth in the north could be considered because of the Luas and the Dart. Large parts of the docklands and Poolbeg would also be suitable.

    “The accommodation may be new purpose-built or existing accommodation, modified if necessary, to satisfy the university’s requirements,” the documents state. Undeveloped sites will also be considered.

    “They could possibly get the residences for below build cost,” one expert said last week, citing the fall in property values, the number of residential developments lying vacant and some developers’ desperate need for working capital.

    Consultants Bruce Shaw are handling the process for the university and TCD has said the contract for the chosen sites “will include any required design and other services necessary for its procurement and may also include options for full operation and/or financing”.

    A contract notice relating to the need for the student accommodation is expected to be published in the second quarter of this year.

  • #801520

    Anonymous

    so what developments would be suitable?

    “housing estates”? in the suburbs?

  • #801521

    Anonymous

    I doubt it lostexpectations; the college has no experience of looking after houses, though in my view they should, I am sure they want to buy an apartment block, for example, with provision for shops on the ground floor that could be turned in to common room areas. You would have thought there was something along the north dock.

  • #801522

    Anonymous

    smithfield

  • #801523

    Anonymous

    How about the watchtower; wouldn’t that be cool.

  • #801524

    Anonymous

    Webcams showing the big hole for the Pease Street development:

    http://www.tcd.ie/biosciences/webcams/

  • #801525

    Anonymous

    notjim: an interesting-looking building and a big statement on Pearse St; any more images? The details on TCD’s website are very scanty.

  • #801526

    Anonymous

    could almost be a metro station… forming the future college green triangle

  • #801527

    Anonymous

    Well I have seen a few more pictures, but the college seems shy about them since it is quite a massy building. The planning application has more, it is 4064/08

  • #801528

    Anonymous

    That planning ref is for a completely different thing….

  • #801529

    Anonymous

    I am sorry, I meant 4995/06

  • #801530

    Anonymous

    Didn’t IM Pei design an office/hotel for that site about 10 years ago? If I recall it looked quite cool. Although….it did have a tower….which is a big NO NO!:)

  • #801531

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    Well I have seen a few more pictures, but the college seems shy about them since it is quite a massy building. The planning application has more, it is 4064/08

    Their new building on the corner at Westland Row is very well finished. The one problem I have is, when you are some distance away walking towards it up Townsend St, the plant room on the roof looks very untidy!

    Ok, I know this is a problem in Dublin and its not the worst example, their is a particularly bad lump above Trinity St which looms over Pen Corner, but even if they had put some glazed penthose space in front or even clad the plant the same as the rest it would be ok.

    Has anybody else noticed?

    C

  • #801532

    Anonymous

    @thebig C wrote:

    Didn’t IM Pei design an office/hotel for that site about 10 years ago? If I recall it looked quite cool. Although….it did have a tower….which is a big NO NO!:)

    That was a slightly different site, it included this one but it also involved the two corners of Westland Row and Pearse St, the one where the sports hall is now and the one with Goldsmith Hall, which would have been demolished. It also involved building over Pearse Station. It was very ambitious and it even had a glass pyramid. A few things went wrong; IE weren’t so keen on the joint plan maybe, part of the funding involved a global headquarters for Elan, which suddenly went through a crisis, the planners weren’t keen and the government started reducing the University block grants relative to their activities. Either way, the plan was dropped and the big CRANN/Sports Hall/Science Gallery building built instead on the one corner and Goldsmith left standing on the other.

  • #801533

    Anonymous

    That was a narrow escape, but it all points up the potential to use the Pearse station ‘envelope’ more creatively once the recession is over; at the moment, it’s grossly underused and there is much opportunity to use the space under the glazed arch (and in any vaults underneath) and link the whole thing more closely to the Trinity campus.

  • #801534

    Anonymous

    TCD buys the old Coyle-Hamilton building by the NGI; I have mixed feelings, I am glad the college is showing good sense in buying around its periphery, I am sorry the Gallery isn’t able to do the same. I think the idea is to use it for office space for Arts-Humanities people in the short term and redevelop it when the island site is built out: after the Pearse St development and the Long Room Hub building.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2009/0603/1224247940217.html

  • #801535

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    TCD buys the old Coyle-Hamilton building by the NGI; I have mixed feelings, I am glad the college is showing good sense in buying around its periphery, I am sorry the Gallery isn’t able to do the same. I think the idea is to use it for office space for Arts-Humanities people in the short term and redevelop it when the island site is built out: after the Pearse St development and the Long Room Hub building.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2009/0603/1224247940217.html

    It would be nice if this building would be used as the venue for the long-awaited Student Centre.

  • #801536

    Anonymous

    I know the redevelopment of Luce Hall has been paused for reevaluation, but isn’t it much more likely to go ahead there; why do you think the Coyle-Hamilton building would be better for this?

  • #801537

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    I know the redevelopment of Luce Hall has been paused for reevaluation, but isn’t it much more likely to go ahead there; why do you think the Coyle-Hamilton building would be better for this?

    Luce Hall would be better, but it’s been such a long wait for the centre that it would be good to get it anywhere.

  • #801538

    Anonymous

    @cathal Dunne wrote:

    It would be nice if this building would be used as the venue for the long-awaited Student Centre.

    Off campus?

  • #801539

    Anonymous

    @fergalr wrote:

    Off campus?

    It’s not really, it’s just over the road from the rest of the college.

  • #801540

    Anonymous

    Once Trinity own it, its part of the campus. Admittedly it is offshore, but being off the island campus (mainland) has its benefits too. You’re not overrun with students during term.

    Also, I wouldn’t hold my breath on that building being refurbished/rebuilt anytime soon. That’s luxury office accomodation by current College standards.

  • #801541

    Anonymous

    @adhoc wrote:

    Once Trinity own it, its part of the campus. Admittedly it is offshore, but being off the island campus (mainland) has its benefits too. You’re not overrun with students during term.

    Also, I wouldn’t hold my breath on that building being refurbished/rebuilt anytime soon. That’s luxury office accomodation by current College standards.

    Well Cormac is proposing it be used as a student centre, which would certainly leave it over run with students. It won’t happen, not least because it is unlikely to contain the sort of spaces a student center requires. And, yes, we need to start thinking of the college as an archipelago, not an island.

    I am sure it will be a long time before it is redeveloped; the immediate plan is post-graduate offices for Arts-Humanities students, student counseling services and similar; I am sure it is perfect as is for these uses, I imagine it will only be redeveloped if it is needed for lab space and the island is built out.

    It is rumored that the Long Room Hub is about to break ground, can that be true, has it gone through abp?

  • #801542

    Anonymous

    Is there any real point in retaining that rugby pitch on the north side of the walk?

    I know it probably had it’s uses in it’s day, I remember my dad telling me that they used to see visiting teams train there on the Fridays before international matches in Lansdowne, but those days are gone and I suspect that modern training facilities have moved on.

    In a sense the pitch stops the Westland Row end of the campus from really integrating properly with the primary core and it could be argued that it also prevents the cricket pitch from becomming the real green space focal point to the whole campus that I imagine it has the potential to be.

    It wouldn’t be too difficult to accommodate new student union facilities in a complex of new structures and new squares? here, . . . overlooking the cricket pitch?

  • #801543

    Anonymous

    Oh gunter please, now you are just being silly.

  • #801544

    Anonymous

    where would they play rugby on campus? Share the soccer pitch which is also part of the cricket pitch? It’d be destroyed

  • #801545

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    Oh gunter please, now you are just being silly.

    a bit taken aback there notjim, I hadn’t taken you for a rugger bugger!

    . . . or is this just the grass thing again?

  • #801546

    Anonymous

    As far as I know the rugby pitch is still used by international teams for training before matches. I heard the France team were supposed to train there before the recent 6 nations game but they decided the cricket pitch suited them better. They destroyed it!
    Now whoever said the French weren’t a sensible bunch? 😀

  • #801547

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Is there any real point in retaining that rugby pitch on the north side of the walk?

    I know it probably had it’s uses in it’s day, I remember my dad telling me that they used to see visiting teams train there on the Fridays before international matches in Lansdowne, but those days are gone and I suspect that modern training facilities have moved on.

    In a sense the pitch stops the Westland Row end of the campus from really integrating properly with the primary core and it could be argued that it also prevents the cricket pitch from becomming the real green space focal point to the whole campus that I imagine it has the potential to be.

    It wouldn’t be too difficult to accommodate new student union facilities in a complex of new structures and new squares? here, . . . overlooking the cricket pitch?

    They could do a Belvo and move the ‘saccur’ down to a purpose built rooftop location when they redevelop the IDA centre down on Pearse/Macken St (a far more suitable location)., leaving the cricket pitch area for the proper ‘hoi hoi’ sporting codes, including rugby and a championship croquet area. The existing rugby pitch could then be redeveloped for something more faaabulous. That campus badly needs its own BT2 , M&S Simply food and Harvey Nicks.;)

  • #801548

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    Well Cormac is proposing it be used as a student centre, which would certainly leave it over run with students. It won’t happen, not least because it is unlikely to contain the sort of spaces a student center requires. And, yes, we need to start thinking of the college as an archipelago, not an island.

    Well firstly, my name’s Cathal, not Cormac and secondly, while I do propose it could be used as a student centre, I also wouldn’t mind Luce Hall being used for the same purpose. It’s just that the centre has been put on such a long finger that it would be good to have any sort of centre anywhere at this stage. Luce Hall or Coyle Hamilton building, it doesn’t matter to me as long as it’s built.

    The rugby pitch should be maintained and improved from its current state. The place needs rugby facilities and the cricket pitch needs to be kept free of the depredations of rucks and mauls so that it can fulfil its function during the lazy days of May.

  • #801549

    Anonymous

    @cathal Dunne wrote:

    Well firstly, my name’s Cathal, not Cormac.

    Oh no! Sorry about that; feel free to call me “notjohn”, or even more inaccurately, “jim” a few times,

    C

  • #801550

    Anonymous

    @tommyt wrote:

    They could do a Belvo and move the ‘saccur’ down to a purpose built rooftop location when they redevelop the IDA centre down on Pearse/Macken St (a far more suitable location)., leaving the cricket pitch area for the proper ‘hoi hoi’ sporting codes, including rugby and a championship croquet area. The existing rugby pitch could then be redeveloped for something more faaabulous. That campus badly needs its own BT2 , M&S Simply food and Harvey Nicks.;)

    ever played soccer on College Park? It may well be the best pitch in Ireland… flat as a pancake and cut to perfection. Pity I was so shite that day and never made the team…. booooo!!

    Oh yeh, please also define “championship” croquet 🙂

  • #801551

    Anonymous

    Unlike your syntax and grammar, arf.

  • #801552

    Anonymous

    @alonso wrote:

    ever played soccer on College Park? It may well be the best pitch in Ireland… flat as a pancake and cut to perfection. Pity I was so shite that day and never made the team…. booooo!!

    Oh yeh, please also define “championship” croquet 🙂

    Association football? On the hallowed ground of College Park? Sacrilege!

  • #801553

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    Oh no! Sorry about that; feel free to call me “notjohn”, or even more inaccurately, “jim” a few times,

    C

    Apology accepted Jimmy! 😉

  • #801554

    Anonymous

    Why don’t the college purchase the rectangle of land bounded by the railway, Westland Row, Cumberland St. and Lincoln Place and build more offices, accommodation and new lecturing and tutoring space?

  • #801555

    Anonymous

    I don’t think it is for sale.

  • #801556

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    I don’t think it is for sale.

    But there are For Sale/To Let signs sprouting out of every other building in Town, surely enough of them are there that the college can buy the block?

  • #801557

    Anonymous

    Well I think they are still using St Andrew’s and associated buildings, the RIA is probably intending to stay and the college already own Dunlop-Oriel house; that’s a lot of the block, Dan Dooley’s must be a possibility in the future, but perversely the college sold a small building on Cumberland St last year.

  • #801558

    Anonymous

    . . . and yes the Long Room Hub is going on site this month.

  • #801559

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    . . . and yes the Long Room Hub is going on site this month.

    So they are building that edifice over the Ed Burke Hall this Summer? It’s an ideal time to do it since the noise of the building work would be quite distracting to lectures being held there once college comes back in September.

  • #801560

    Anonymous

    I think it will be March before its handed over, but hopefully the worst of the work effecting the Burke will be done.

  • #801561

    Anonymous

    How did it go through the planning process do we know? Any notable developments to make it worth wading through a planning search for?

    What is this faux grass in aid of behind the cricket pitch, notjim? Oddly pleasant.

    The Trinity campus is seen to best effect on quiet weekend evenings in summer, when the intense heat and crowds of the day have receded, and the great buildings bask in contemplation in the last rays of low sunshine.

    The shadows become so long that you can see them moving before your eyes as they play across the soft stone surfaces.

    The glimpsed views of the campus are a constant delight.

  • #801562

    Anonymous

    The great entrance hall of Regent House fronting into College Green plays host to stunning plays of light on such evenings, as the sinking sun pierces its way down Dame Street, directly through the mid-18th century windows of the West Front, before coming to a halt on the opposing wall of the stairwell.

    The swirled patterns projected by the shimmering crown glass panes are a delight to behold.

    Which sadly is more than can be said for the presentation of the entrance hall itself, which is used as a dumping ground by college authorities. Can you just imagine a similar scene in Oxford or Cambridge?

    Some of the very finest ironwork in the city is forced to sit amongst – heck even give support to – this muck.

    Appalling. The decoration is also dismally down-at-heel.

    One curiosity of this great room, however, is a little piece of hidden history which can be observed by those of the snooping variety. If you open up the shuttering of the windows at ground floor level, glimpses of forgotten newspaper padding can be noted the whole way along the inside of the window box.

    If you tug at it, it comes loose quite easily.

    Alas a date was not printed on the above piece and I did not want to damage it so popped it back in. Worth digging out though if anyone else wants a go. It would appear to date to the 1950s at the latest.

  • #801563

    Anonymous

    Beautiful pictures Graham.

    I have often regretted the way that staircase is treated, I think the Regent Room, the room it leads up to, is wasted too, nothing like as grand, or as well used, a room as it could be. It could be one of the places we share with the city, it could be used for recitals and poetry readings and the like and it with a little effort it could look great and people would love it.

    Compared to a Cambridge college we aren’t good with great rooms; for example, there is a little meeting room by the Long Room, getting to it is cool because you walk through the Long Room and then beyond the tourists and the ropes and through the door at the end, but the room itself could be anywhere, fantastic windows sure, but crappy carpet, bad wiring, some half assed repro furniture.

    Even the college board room is underwhelming.

    The Common Room is good and the Provost’s House, of course, is fantastic. However with just a little effort we could have so much more; I work in one of the houses on Westland Row, with the honorable exception of the new McNamara Professor of Engineering, we waste these buildings, with just a tiny bit of effort it could feel like a privilege to work in them.

  • #801564

    Anonymous

    Great photos GrahamH

    Its amazing how Trinity is completely emptied of people by the end of term.

  • #801565

    Anonymous

    @magwea wrote:

    Its amazing how Trinity is completely emptied of people by the end of term.

    I’m still here! I don’t really feel it gets that much emptier. Now Cambridge between Christmas and New Years . . .

  • #801566

    Anonymous

    Ah, there’s always a few that never would leave the place.

  • #801567

    Anonymous

    So the Long Room Hub building is on site; they haven’t done much yet but they are definitely clearing the site.

  • #801568

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    So the Long Room Hub building is on site; they haven’t done much yet but they are definitely clearing the site.

    Yes, I was in around there last Friday, the work has started. Nice bit of work for builders in these depressed times. Does anyone now when they are due to complete the Hub?

  • #801569

    Anonymous

    I can’t remember how long it is taking, but I remember being surprised by how quickly they were planning to do it. The Pav redevelopment is going on site this week as well.

  • #801570

    Anonymous

    What is the Pav development notjim?

    Just as I pass every evening, it never fails to baffle how an educational institute with its own pioneering engineering faculty, hosting a number of noted lecturers and professors in the field of energy conservation, coupled with one of the finest art history departments in the state, can preside over the shambolic state of affairs that is the presentation of the iconic public face of Trinity College Dublin, namely the ever-decaying West Front on College Green.

    We shall leave manicured turf and other contentious suburban-related issues outside the classroom for the moment, but the three issues currently facing the West Front are:

    1) The despicable state of its windows, the lack of maintenance of which is a growing embarrassment in the heart of the city. For the flagship institution in the city and arguably its number one visited attraction (what visitor to Dublin does not pass through Trinity or College Green?) to have its fenestration-heavy facade compromised by windows in an advanced state of deterioration, and in some cases decay, is simply unacceptable. Even windows that were recently restored before the wider project ground to a halt are already grubby, having benefited from zero maintenance since the work was carried out. The entire array of windows on this prominent public face urgently needs restoration, and subsequent on-going maintenance. Cash is of course the accepted big stumbling block. If we had a lottery fund that actually worked, it would be the classic source of funding for a major project such as this.

    2) Policy regarding the presentation of rooms fronting the West Front needs to be established. The facade is increasingly taking on the appearance of the city’s most pretentious tenement block, with ragged curtains, old battered blinds and shutters, and various types of temporary coverings and secondary glazing cluttering the window opes. Likewise, while signs of academic life are interesting and animating for the passer-by, stacks of administrative junk and general abandoned materials, that nobody has a notion what to do with or knows who dumped there in the first place, most certainly are not. All of this unsightly rubbish needs to be cleared and consistently monitored. The presentation of the Grafton Street end pavilion is a particular disgrace.

    3) The floodlighting (yes I know, off he goes again) of the West Front is simply shambolic and has been for years. Indeed it would appear that no routine maintenance of the lighting installation has been conducted since it was probably installed in the mid-1990s for the college’s 500th anniversary, as part of the wider conservation works to the College Green facade undertaken at that time. What few and inadequate floods that there are mounted to the rear of the railing plinth wall are either blown, broken, or due to failed hinges misdirected at anything from the lawn to plinth the flood is attached to. As manicured as the grass may be, 800 watt-plus just might be better expended on highlighting the 18th century facade than exposing the nocturnal occupations of urban snails. Even more preposterously, a white flood was recently replaced with an orange sodium Phillips equivalent, with complete disregard for the existing (if barely) ensemble’s agreed colour temperature. The effect, on the few occasions the floods are even turned on at all, could not be more horrific. The engineering faculty should join forces with Phillips or the ESB or whoever to install the most energy efficient floodlighting system of any major building in the capital. The site, with its wide protected lawn and railing boundary, is the ideal arrangement for any floodlighting scheme, and also offers simple access for installation and maintenance. The type of aesthetic required – a simple ethereal glow of upward-cast white light from a hidden source – has long been the most effective solution for the expansive gracious West Front, making matters all the easier to implement if the will was there. Finally, those shocking grubby wonky 80s lanterns clinging for dear life to the piers of the entrance gates sorely need replacement. Two charming, well detailed reproduction lamps with glittering clear bulbs would be the icing on the cake of a newly invigorated West Front.

    These issues just have to be sorted. As with many Irish institutions, Trinity for some reason doesn’t appear to hold an overt pride in dignity of appearance, or graciousness in its presentation to the world. The current misuse of Regent House, as mentioned by notjim earlier, is the classic example of such an attitude – a facility which could be a prestigious showcase for the college, ideally positioned on the interface between the institution and the city as host to innumerable public events.

  • #801571

    Anonymous

    As well as agree with all of the above I can think of a thousand other instances of how the college is failing to look after its building stock: some day I want to start a TCD snag list of all the small and large things they could do to look after the place properly.

    The Pav, the Pavilion bar on college park so beloved of students, the three or four sunny evenings they spend drinking there each April/May/June form 90% of their happy memories, is being extended, for the fourth time in its existence. As far as I understand it, glass boxes are being added on the podium areas each side of the bar and some arrangement is being made to improve disabled access.

  • #801572

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    The Pav, the Pavilion bar on college park so beloved of students, the three or four sunny evenings they spend drinking there each April/May/June form 90% of their happy memories, is being extended, for the fourth time in its existence. As far as I understand it, glass boxes are being added on the podium areas each side of the bar and some arrangement is being made to improve disabled access.

    They could also do with expanding the toilets in the place. The gents are shoebox-sized and you’re always blocking the washbasin when drying your hands with the hand-dryer which can be a bit uncomfortable of a Pav Friday.

  • #801573

    Anonymous

    fyi st patrick’s well in tcd well photos/ discussions
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055615605

  • #801574

    Anonymous

    Thanks for the link lostexpectation – most interesting! Good to see Trinity News’s journalistic standards are as high as ever too, ripping text word for word from published sources.

    I never heard of this well’s survival before, perhaps because it is quite clearly not St. Patrick’s Well of antiquity, or indeed even of late medieval times, which might otherwise promote a wider knowledge of its existence.

    Rachel Moss’s thoroughly researched and beautifully written history of the well in The Provost’s House Stables: Building and Environs, observes that by the 18th and 19th centuries there was a proliferation of wells in the Nassau Street district, all of which had competing claims to the title of St. Patrick’s Well, even though it was more than likely originally located about half a kilometre away at Lincoln Place (the name St. Patrick’s Well Lane alone suggests a positioning at a remove from the settlement of Trinity College and Hoggen Green). Thus the impressive brick-lined Georgian well which stands today immediately beneath the traffic junction with Dawson Street (RPA take note), albeit quite extravagant, is probably associated with the houses which once stood along this section of this side of the street, possibly accessed in a manner similar to a typical basement cellar with an entrance off a basement light well under the pavement. Alternatively. Rachel Moss suggests the well may be connected with the older Trinity stables which were also located in this area: the likely inferior quality of the water being acceptable for animal consumption.

    In any event another Dublin curiosity to add to the list! I wonder what the entranceway was like before the tunnel was lined with concrete during the construction of the Arts Block. I suppose we should be thankful it was otherwise maintained…

  • #801575

    Anonymous

    Look at the orbs in some of those photos in lostexpectation’s link…………………………’Most Haunted’ anyone! (we could get Derek Acorah to connect with some of Trinity’s more famous alumni) :rolleyes:

  • #801576

    Anonymous

    oh and work has begun on the scheme to replace some of the front square cobbles with paving to improve disabled access.

  • #801577

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    oh and work has begun on the scheme to replace some of the front square cobbles with paving to improve disabled access.

    The idea was to lay some discrete flat granite tracks through the cobbles to allow for wheelchairs. This was promised enthusiastically in 1991 by Tom Mitchell while on the hustings to become provost. He was elected but several years later, I had to push my mother over the cobbles to my graduation. Anyway I’m glad it’s finally happening.

  • #801578

    Anonymous

    I think both funding and planning permission proved more difficult than anticipated. Basically there will be a track around the edge and two perpendicular tracks cross the large expanse of cobbles. I am also glad it is happening, though I am unsure they have picked the right size of paving stone.

  • #801579

    Anonymous

    The path replacing part of the cobbles; these are samples apparently:

    (photo from boards.ie; the cobbles thread on the TCD board)

  • #801580

    Anonymous

    Why not use flags the same size and colour as the cobbles? This looks big enough to park a truck and shiny enough to use on a bathroom wall.

    The stretcher bond pattern is badly mismatched with the cobble stones. Looks horrible to me. Still it’s better than forcing invalids over bumpy stones.

  • #801581

    Anonymous

    @cathal Dunne wrote:

    They could also do with expanding the toilets in the place. The gents are shoebox-sized and you’re always blocking the washbasin when drying your hands with the hand-dryer which can be a bit uncomfortable of a Pav Friday.

    Listen, those aren’t toilets. Those are water closets in the most closet sense of the word. I don’t know why they don’t boot the changing rooms out of the bottom of the building and use all that room for more bar space.
    Ah, the Pav. Best pub in the world on a late summer’s afternoon.

  • #801582

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    The path replacing part of the cobbles; these are samples apparently:

    (photo from boards.ie; the cobbles thread on the TCD board)

    contrast looks good I think

  • #801583

    Anonymous

    @fergalr wrote:

    I don’t know why they don’t boot the changing rooms out of the bottom of the building and use all that room for more bar space.
    Ah, the Pav. Best pub in the world on a late summer’s afternoon.

    I think the DUCAC who represent the sports clubs and run the Pav are quite keen on the idea that it’s is a Pavilion and not a bar; they are probably right, it would loose some of its charm if it ceased to have a mixed function. The refurbishment and extension will increase the amount of changing room space as I understand it.

  • #801584

    Anonymous

    I don’t know why those large paving stones are being laid, as not only do they look awful, they are not what permission was granted for. As Frank says, smaller paving units would be far more appropriate, integrating better with the fine grain of existing cobbles and setts.

    Initially, Trinity applied for permission for the below scheme, drafted as a compromise between plans for greater and lesser numbers of pathways as discussed over the course of four years of consultation. As can be seen, the design included diagonal cross paths in Parliament Square which were considered by the case planner to be inharmonious with the rectilinear character of the enclosure, the buildings, and how they relate with each other. It was also felt that the paths were too numerous.

    Otherwise considered an acceptable solution to resolving the problems of accessibility, the principal condition of granting permission was the omission of the diagonal paths and their replacement with a horizontal path connecting the Chapel and Examination Hall. A good compromise.

    This proposal that was granted permission proposed the use of modern square granite setts of 100mm x 100mm, with edges and bays marked by 100mm x 200mm setts. It is difficult to understand, therefore, why large slabs of granite are being laid as test patches.

    In any event, one would have to wonder why tightly knitted traditional setts, as they are supposed to be laid, cannot be used as a wheelchair surface. Why cannot pathways of the quality of the Foster Place setted surface, indeed even better, be laid? A slightly flatter stone, coupled with a vertical bonding pattern and tight laying, would surely provide a sufficiently flat surface?

    A wheelchair pathway concept was successfully incorporated by the OPW into their new paving of the Upper Yard at Dublin Castle c. 1996, in this case used to architectural effect, drawing attention to the axial alignment of the entrance to the State Apartments with the Bedford Tower opposite.

    A different context to Trinity though, as the roughly square-cut stones used here have a hard, structural quality, unlike the organic assemblage of cobbles in Front Square which require a softer treatment. Trinity also requires pavement widths capable of accommodating two passing chairs. In any event, the Upper Yard’s paving was a grievous mistake, as not only are the ‘cobbles’ barely one step above hardcore – the salvaged off-casts of provincial British cities’ tramlines if I recall – nastily laid in a pool of cement, and a nightmare to walk over, they also forever changed the regal character of the Yard, with its elegant compacted earth and gravel surface, which had never been cobbled in its 300 year history. A compacted surface of fawn-coloured earth and fine gravel traversed with pathways would have been fabulous. Such a crying shame.

    Anyway, we’ll see how Trinity pans out.

  • #801585

    Anonymous

    Sadly the tree by the Nassau St entrance is diseased and will be felled:

    “It is with regret that Trinity College Dublin has been obliged to fell the Horse Chestnut tree at the entrance to the Arts Building on Nassau Street. The tree has undergone extensive examinations conducted by two different experts and a serious fungal disease was identified which now necessitates the removal of the tree for safety reasons. The College regrets this decision however it has been obliged to take this course of action due to the potential danger it may pose to the public.
    As a result the Nassau Street Entrance will be closed until 6.00pm on Sunday August 9th. The Gardai will manage any necessary traffic diversions on Nassau Street during the works. Access to the west end of College during this time will be maintained via the College’s Front Gate. Normal Sunday access arrangements will resume at 6.00pm when Front Gate will close and the Nassau Street Entrance will re-open.
    The Horse Chestnut, which was planted in the late 1870s in the area known as the Fellows’ Garden, was retained in the Arts Building development when it was completed in 1978. The tree has served as a meeting place and a landmark for that time. The College’s Grounds & Gardens Committee is currently seeking a suitable replacement tree species for the site.
    “There are currently six hundred trees on Trinity College’s Campus which contribute to an atmosphere that enhances study as well as the biodiversity of the city. We value and care for them all,” said TCD’s Facilities Officer, Noel McCann. “

    http://www.tcd.ie/Communications/news/news.php?headerID=1250&vs_date=2009-08-05

  • #801586

    Anonymous

    A well-detailed, nicely written public interest communique from a public body – now there’s a first!

    This is a shame, even if it is a tree more famous for its trunk than its canopy. Perhaps if the trunk was left in place, nobody would actually notice the rest of the tree had been chopped down…

    For a second there I thought it was the Grafton Street corner under question – phew, heart failure rewind please.

  • #801587

    Anonymous

    I know 300 x 300 tiles are cheaper to lay maybe that’s your answer?

  • #801588

    Anonymous

    BRL hoping to win TCD student accommodation for Ballymun; from today’s times.

    “BALLYMUN COULD be the location of a new Trinity College “student village” if Dublin City Council’s regeneration company is successful in a bid to build accommodation for the university.

    Trinity College is seeking tenders for a 1,000-bed accommodation campus within a 2.5km or 30-minute rush-hour commute of the university’s main buildings in Dublin city centre.

    Ballymun Regeneration Ltd (BRL), the company set up by the city council to manage the redevelopment of the city’s largest social housing flat complex, is seeking to form a consortium to bid to build the campus.

    BRL managing director Ciarán Murray said the company had a number of sites on the Ballymun Road and in the Ballymun Business Park near the M50, which would be suitable for student housing.

    “Ballymun offers a huge opportunity for the consolidation of all Trinity’s future needs in terms of the creation of a student village, not only providing accommodation but integrated sports, leisure and cultural facilities,” Mr Murray said.

    While Trinity is initially seeking accommodation for 1,000 students, Ballymun had the capacity to house a much larger student village with accommodation for several thousand undergraduates and postgraduate students, he said.

    Ballymun is more than 7km from Dublin’s city centre, but Mr Murray said dedicated bus lanes make it a 10-15 minute journey from Trinity and the planned metro station would be just five stops away from the university.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0806/1224252081783.html

  • #801589

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    BRL hoping to win TCD student accommodation for Ballymun; from today’s times.

    “BALLYMUN COULD be the location of a new Trinity College “student village” if Dublin City Council’s regeneration company is successful in a bid to build accommodation for the university.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0806/1224252081783.html

    I think it’s a bit odd that there is a criteria of being within a short commute, but that there is no criteria to be within a short cycling commute. Surely it would make sense to locate the student accomodation within up to 15min (4km) cycling commute? Ballymun is 7km from TCD.
    [the 4km 15min suggestion is my own cycling threashold after which I would need to shower]
    And there should be criteria to provide secure cycle parking etc in the student accomodation.
    And its DCC who’s idea it is, aren’t they supposed to be promoting sustainable living and promoting cycling? Students are an ideal group of people to target, if you do it right.

    Anyway Ballymun is far better suited to accomodate students from DCU and the other collages in the area (Coolock Raheny etc) which are so much closer.

  • #801590

    Anonymous

    Trinity is terrible about cycling; the cycle stands are awful, when your bike gets robbed the porters are completely uninterested and, in fact, cycle parking is the responsibility of the students union, I wrote once to ask if that meant the SU also had responsibility for car parking, but apparently not.

    At the moment they seem to be adding stanley stands under the DART line, which is good but not much; surely it would be worth having some sort of repair workshop on campus, oh, you know subsidized out of a car parking fee, it is a continual irritation to me that car parking is a free perk, subsidizing poor commuting habits.

  • #801591

    Anonymous

    I’d expect the Glass bottle site in Ringsend will be chosen, long standing connections between Trinity and McNamara

  • #801592

    Anonymous

    I thought that too; but there are also rumours about that in connection with the joint project with UCD.

    As for the connection with McNamara, I am enjoying the new McNamara Professor of engineering, he is extremely active and seems to be building up a substantial group very fast and gets extra marks for being the first person to treat one of the Westland Row houses with any sort of respect.

  • #801593

    Anonymous

    I spent a lot of the past year on campus and i have to say i have many gripes with some of the building’s internal layouts around campus, the arts block being the worst.

    I used to mildly hate the arts block now i think its offensive to the mind let alone the eyes. Try navigating it in a hurry? It’s a nightmare. When helping out for debates for the Hist or The Phill sometimes they hold debates in the tiny classrooms of upper floors in the arts block, good luck finding them! It’s a concrete maze of identicle dark sections. It’s scary how badly sign posted it is and how dark it is. It’s nothing but carpet and concrete.

    I could go on for hours, but basically it’s student moniker of “THe soviet bomb shelter” is apropriate.

    Luce hall despite being an eye soar is a nice space, but it’s mainly used for squash and exams and 1 office for the Learning Development services. IT really needs a face lift and a paint job. Maybe even stick LED lights on the outside or something, like that german football stadium.

    It will be nice when it becomes a student space because there’s plenty of space in there.

    I am certainly biast but The GMB is one of my favourite buildings on campus. Its grand scale and space is very welcoming. Its just a pitty its so cold in winter.

    It has had a few questionable internal changes over the years. The new stairs at the top after the fire don’t quiet fit in but they serve a purpose.

    Also the new front desk in the foyer appears to be made of MDF which is appalling. Compared to the shack that was there it’s an improvement but being exposed i don’t think it’s much of an improvement.

    I have a few other gripes and loves of campus but for the moment i’ll leave them be.

    Also my faculty has the best building, The GAS building on D’Olier Street. No question:p

  • #801594

    Anonymous

    @grahamh wrote:

    For the flagship institution in the city and arguably its number one visited attraction to have its fenestration-heavy facade compromised by windows in an advanced state of deterioration, and in some cases decay, is simply unacceptable.

    Well I’m glad to report that matters are finally progressing in respect of the West Front, with repainting of all its windows underway for a number of weeks now. The previous process of removal and ‘reconditioning’ of sashes has been abandoned in favour of a basic in-situ painting of the joinery. This appears to be on foot of the halting of the previous works, where it was uncovered that large amounts of historic glass was being broken to facilitate the refurbishment.

    Now a painting – and presumably a prior sanding and cleaning – with an (apparent single) coat of Dulux Solo white is the order of the day. Not exactly going to win a Europa Nostra any time soon, but a careful job is being conducted nonetheless.

    The difference between the earlier reconditioned sashes and these simply painted ones is notable – the former sharp with crisp painted edges and glazing bars, the latter (as seen above) more wonky, if also more charming.

    Before

    After

    The southern end (below) is now well in hand. Soon this grotty scene – where some of the joinery has no paint left on it at all – will be no more.

    The difference a coat of paint makes (may need to refresh page for effect).

    Some of the truly fabulous crowns of c. 1758. It’s quite rare you can catch this view: just a few minutes with a very specific evening sky.

    Anyway, it’s all coming together. The painter is getting through about five windows a day – no mean feat. Unlike most of us who stand back to admire the newly decorated boxroom wall, it must be pretty darn satisfying to lay claim to painting the entire West Front of Trinity College!

  • #801595

    Anonymous

    Capital Bars, including the Trinity Capital, have gone into examinership: I hope the college has the good sense to make an offer for the Trinity Capital; what a fantastic opportunity!

    On the other hand I hope the bars survive, it is hard not to like Cafe en Seine and Zanzibar and the George is an institution, Break for the Border we could do without.

  • #801596

    Anonymous

    . . . and according to the Post the examiner is going to sell the hotels to save the pubs. Oh please buy the Trinity Capital TCD!

  • #801597

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    On the other hand I hope the bars survive, it is hard not to like Cafe en Seine and Zanzibar and the George is an institution, Break for the Border we could do without.

    It’s quite easy not to like Café en Seine, especially when you stick out your hand to collect your change, only to find that the barman is also sticking out his hand waiting for the extra few quid that you owe for your pint.

    Is the George an institution? I thought it was just a gay bar. I suppose if it qualifies as an institution then so does the Parnell Mooney, for it is to the hard (and crooked) nosed, rough as old boots, cider-injecting scumbags that drink there what the George is to the gay community.

  • #801598

    Anonymous

    The Parnell Mooney is most certainly an institution and, as for Cafe en Seine, how else do you think they pay for their huge planters and over-size lighting features, but let’s not go off topic.

  • #801599

    Anonymous

    I hope Café en Seine shuts.
    It was an overpriced craptrap frequented by celtic tiger bullshiters.
    All pretending they were in France.

    It was never a proper pub.

    A bit like the bars on Rue St. Denis in Paris.
    Lots of Irish pubs there full of French folk pretending they are in Dublin.

  • #801600

    Anonymous

    @Global Citizen wrote:

    I hope Café en Seine shuts.
    It was an overpriced craptrap frequented by celtic tiger bullshiters.
    All pretending they were in France.

    It was never a proper pub.

    A bit like the bars on Rue St. Denis in Paris.
    Lots of Irish pubs there full of French folk pretending they are in Dublin.

    You’re right. What makes a city great is limiting itself to indigenous culture. We should shut down the Italian and Indian restaurants and the Swedish massage parlours while we’re at it.

  • #801601

    Anonymous

    There are Swedish massage parlours: do tell! I also seemed to have different experience of the Rue St. Denis to the inaptly named Global Citizen; I appear to have have mistook the French folk pretending to be Dubliners for male prostitutes!

    Either way, lets stick to our topic: I know I started it, but really it was by accident and despite my recent retreat from my former wide ranging thread bossiness, I still hope to protect this topicness here.

  • #801602

    Anonymous

    Screw the topic, Swedish massage parlours? Where?

    And the only thing remotely french about Café en Seine is the name.
    The prevalent culture endorsed there is that of Celtic Tiger Ireland, which in recent times has been unmasked to show its true qualities- tackiness and narcissism.

  • #801603

    Anonymous
  • #801604

    Anonymous

    They have a picture of the ‘Long Room Hub’ on the hoarding now,

    . . . . what do ye think?

  • #801605

    Anonymous

    Cafe en Seine is at least well decorated, you can’t deny it looks beautiful. All that needs to change is the pricing.

  • #801606

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    They have a picture of the ‘Long Room Hub’ on the hoarding now,

    . . . . what do ye think?

    I didn’t know the Department of Finance Building on Merrion Row had pupped.

  • #801607

    Anonymous

    this must be a joke…

  • #801608

    Anonymous

    @fergalr wrote:

    I didn’t know the Department of Finance Building on Merrion Row had pupped.

    “pupped”? :confused:

    Oh, the state of education today….

    The word you are looking for, young man, is “whelped”.

    But other than that, quite an apt comment!

  • #801609

    Anonymous

    @fergalr wrote:

    I didn’t know the Department of Finance Building on Merrion Row had pupped.

    They look about the same size to me. Duplicated is a more accurate description.

  • #801610

    Anonymous

    Is that for real?

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    ……………………………..,Dear God, make it stop!

  • #801611

    Anonymous

    ASCII art is no substitute for words.

    There is lots to be said about this building, as noted above, it is a bit modish and really fails to effectively close the square, against that, it is crisp, and the window pattern plays amusingly with the strong convention which dominates the Parliament Square or whatever its called.

    However, trying to deduce a standpoint from a piece of sprocket printer nostalgia is kind of fruitless.

  • #801612

    Anonymous


    view of the model of the ‘Long Room Hub’ over the roof of the old library.

    Similarities – within an architectural tradition – are the norm, that’s how ‘traditions’ used to work; one guy makes an advance, the next guy produces a refinement and on it goes in incremental steps, until a level of accomplishment is reached that satisfies on some deep aesthetic level and then, rather than regress, someone comes up with a new idea.

    In that sense, the similarities between this ‘Long Room Hub’ block and the Dept. of Finance block on Merrion Row, could be a positive sign that Irish contemporary architecture is growing out of it’s gawky adolescence, with pumping hormones and a short attention span, and becoming mature.

    On the other hand, it could just be a total absence of new ideas.

    Traditionally, the problem with Irish architecture is that; often the near-perfect work arrives early in the process and a ‘ah feck it, we can’t beat that’ mindset seems to take over and kills the ambition to keep raising the bar.

    Koralek’s Berkley Library is one of those works. A little piece of refined English Brutalism imported into the centre of 1960s Dublin, as exquisite and as alien as Cormac’s chapel, or the Casino at Marino.

    The new ‘Long Room Hub’ building sets itself up to take on the ‘Berkley’ across a tiny square, with a similar well-defined hollowed-out mass, raised off the ground on similar jutting cantilevers. . . . . . The question is: . . . . When it’s finished, will we see architectural progression, or architectural regression?


    the ‘Long Room Hub’ squaring up to the ‘Berkley’ in the distance.

    Interesting times ahead 🙂

  • #801613

    Anonymous

    we can’t beat missarchi… currently regression and special purpose vehicles with tank proof walls with 7 hurdles or fences…

  • #801614

    Anonymous

    @missarchi wrote:

    we can’t beat missarchi… currently regression and special purpose vehicles with tank proof walls with 7 hurdles or fences…

    ?……..

  • #801615

    Anonymous

    Gunter’s caption below the last image above “The long room hub’ squaring up to the Berkley in the distance”, sums up the image quite neatly. From that birds eye view the building sits quite comfortably with its neighbours without dominating them or being threatened by them. And while this model with the sun reflecting off the wall of the old library is never truly convincing, it does present a more favourable image than the humans eye view on the hoarding a few posts back.

  • #801616

    Anonymous

    It’s dreadful. As bad as the library.

  • #801617

    Anonymous

    Planning application for solar panels on New Square

    http://bit.ly/TCD_solar

    North Block comprising of House Nos. 33, 34, 35, 36, & 37, New Square, Trinity College, College Green, Dublin 2 PROTECTED STRUCTURE – Flat collector solar panels to the front roof

    This is obviously trinityHAUS in action.

    There is another interesting planning notice up, to convert Luce Hall into a student center, most significantly for people who aren’t students, this will include in-fill between the box and Pearse Street to restore the street line; this isn’t on the online planning lists yet.

  • #801618

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    There is another interesting planning notice up, to convert Luce Hall into a student center, most significantly for people who aren’t students, this will include in-fill between the box and Pearse Street to restore the street line; this isn’t on the online planning lists yet.

    Step in the right direction there:)


    The gap in the streetscape isn’t huge, but you expect better from Trinity


    Passed Luce Hall recently and it’s not been wearing too well on the outside. Back in the 80s when it was built it was something of a landmark with it’s Miesian expressed steel frame, but I don’t remember it ever being particularly loved.

  • #801619

    Anonymous

    The Long Room Hub frame is in place, here it is from across Fellows’ Sq.

  • #801620

    Anonymous

    That was quick!

  • #801621

    Anonymous

    I guess the slow bit at the start is digging the big hole, but that couldn’t do that in this case or they would have broken through to the Edmund Burke. It did go from shafts standing to frame up in about two weeks, it was quite impressive.

  • #801622

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    I guess the slow bit at the start is digging the big hole, but that couldn’t do that in this case or they would have broken through to the Edmund Burke. It did go from shafts standing to frame up in about two weeks, it was quite impressive.

    It’s smaller than I expected too. It has gone up very fast.

    I was in the Pav just the other day and the new toilets are far and away better than the old ones. It’s a great job they did there. I laugh at the wheelchair buttons on the doors of it with the massive steps outside.

  • #801623

    Anonymous

    @cathal Dunne wrote:

    It’s smaller than I expected too. It has gone up very fast.

    I was in the Pav just the other day and the new toilets are far and away better than the old ones. It’s a great job they did there. I laugh at the wheelchair buttons on the doors of it with the massive steps outside.

    There is a lift that enables wheelchair users to avoid the massive steps.

  • #801624

    Anonymous

    The Luce Hall extension/conversion application is now online, it is 4269/09

    PROTECTED STRUCTURE-Permission for the re-development of Luce Hall and its extension onto Pearse Street to provide for circa 4400sqm of student facilities. The development will comprise: The erection of a four storey over basement redbrick frontage to Pearse Street with a set-back terrace at third floor level containing Society Rooms, Library and Student Bar. The reconfiguration of Luce Hall (1979) to include a new mezzanine floor and to provide student union and outreach facilities with a new atrium. A glazed roof light to 21m high, entrance canopy and new glazing and signage to Luce Hall. The removal of the existing wall and railings along Pearse Street. All on a circa 0.195ha site adjacent to 183 Pearse Street (protected structure, Item 6649) and the Pearse Street railway bridge, Pearse Street, Dublin 2.

  • #801625

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    The Luce Hall extension/conversion application is now online, it is 4269/09

    PROTECTED STRUCTURE-Permission for the re-development of Luce Hall and its extension onto Pearse Street to provide for circa 4400sqm of student facilities. The development will comprise: The erection of a four storey over basement redbrick frontage to Pearse Street with a set-back terrace at third floor level containing Society Rooms, Library and Student Bar. The reconfiguration of Luce Hall (1979) to include a new mezzanine floor and to provide student union and outreach facilities with a new atrium. A glazed roof light to 21m high, entrance canopy and new glazing and signage to Luce Hall. The removal of the existing wall and railings along Pearse Street. All on a circa 0.195ha site adjacent to 183 Pearse Street (protected structure, Item 6649) and the Pearse Street railway bridge, Pearse Street, Dublin 2.

    Sounds exciting. Are there any images of the project there, notjim? I’ll have a look on the Director of Buildings’ site to see if they have some there.

  • #801626

    Anonymous

    @Smithfield Resi wrote:

    Is that for real?

    ……………………………………..______ __
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    ……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>–==“
    …………………………………._…….. …_,-%…….`
    ……………………………..,Dear God, make it stop!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7fv5dlozk8

    I reserve judgement until I see the façade! They mostly do excellent work but fingers crossed a rabbit comes out of the hat…. The burrowing was triangular 🙁

  • #801627

    Anonymous

    The steel framework of the ‘Long Room Hub’ peeping up over the 1930s reading room.

    They’ve obviously designed this to fill this gap and address the front square.

    This is going to be interesting.

  • #801628

    Anonymous

    Yes, I was surprised by just how squarely it stands behind the reading room, because of the walls each side, it is hard to get a view where it doesn’t look like that. I am so curious about how this will work out.

  • #801629

    Anonymous

    @adhoc wrote:

    There is a lift that enables wheelchair users to avoid the massive steps.

    Ah, well that makes sense. I mustn’t have seen the lift.

  • #801630

    Anonymous

    Well O’Donnell & Tuomey are back with a new proposal for the Pearse Street frontage of Trinity College adjacent to the railway bridge, their previous one for demolition of 5 protected structures and creation of new entrance building having been trashed by An Bord Pleanala Inspector Kevin Moore as an “over-elaborate, unecessarily excessive opening onto the street” when there are “distinct opportunities to provide alternative access in a more simplistic and subtle manner that is more in keeping with the under-stated accesses common to the college.” Read his full rant against it here (open ‘Inspector’s report’ and see ‘Assessment’): http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/217882.htm

    So the new one is to keep the 5 protected structures and construct a new building in the gap between them and the railway bridge, and some other buildings behind, as seen above. Ref. is 4269/09

  • #801631

    Anonymous

    The Academy of the Dramatic Arts announced today; RADA style theatre school with philanthropy from the Ryans.

    Interestingly part as far as this thread is concerned is that it will involve some sort of building and conversion in the Enterprise Center, the old IDA site opposite those apartments on Pearse Street that were supposed to be designed by Benson and Forsythe but weren’t in the end: theater, workshops and studios in what they claim will be Dublin’s new cultural quarter.

  • #801632

    Anonymous
  • #801633

    Anonymous

    @lostexpectation wrote:

    Work starts on new TCD building
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1207/breaking59.htm

    huh?

    Yes, isn’t it the stupidest press release ever:

    “Trinity College Turns the Sod for New Building on Fellows Square”

    where “turns the sod” means builds two lift shafts, bolts together the metal frame and puts about half of the prefab elevation in place.

  • #801634

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Council bid to scupper Trinity’s new wing
    By Cormac Murphy

    Thursday January 14 2010

    Trinity College’s plan for a new student building has suffered a setback after city councillors rejected it.

    It comes despite the proposal winning approval from heritage body An Taisce.

    Councillors on south east area committee have recommended that planners throw out the scheme

    The Trinity board had requested the go-ahead for the redevelopment of Luce Hall to provide 4,400sqm of student facilities.

    If granted approval it will comprise a four-storey over- basement building fronting on to Pearse Street with a setback terrace on the third floor containing society rooms, a library and student bar.

    An Taisce welcomed the plan, saying the proposal is an important one “on account of the prominence of the site within Trinity College and the city generally”.

    http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/council-bid-to-scupper-trinitys-new-wing-2013486.html

  • #801635

    Anonymous

    The passage from Front Square to the Provost’s House.

  • #801636

    Anonymous

    Talk about the new Long Room Hub building, details below:
    _____________________________________________________

    ‘Explaining the Trinity Long Room Hub Building’

    A talk by the architects Valerie Mulvin and Niall McCullough.

    The architects responsible for the new arts and humanities building in Fellows’ Square of Trinity College will explain the vision behind their design.

    Tuesday 23 February 2010

    Room 5033, Arts Building.

    5.00pm to 6.30 pm.

    All welcome.

  • #801637

    Anonymous

    How did you get into the Provost’s Garden, notjim? Are you the Provost?

    It’s really annoying that the council rejected the planned Student Centre. It does have An Taisce support and it has significant amenity value. Given that lesser institutions like UCD and NUIG can manage to have student centres, the Dublin University should be able to manage it. The building work would also create a lot of jobs and the building itself would improve the character of Pearse St.

  • #801638

    Anonymous

    @cathal Dunne wrote:

    Are you the Provost?

    Not yet Cathal, not yet.

    The picture isn’t quite from the Provost’s garden though and anyone not at TCD can loose interest now: there is a small piece of land between the side of the Provost’s Garden and the passageway to the Provost’s House, you get to it through Hse 1 and it contains a prefab which used to be the staff office and now contains the Equality Office, the office of the Keeper of the Pictures and that sort of thing.

    I could be wrong but I don’t think the Student Center planning has been rejected, though it has gone to further information, I think the only thing that has happened is the normally slightly batty planning committee on the Council has come out against it: for better or worse, better probably, the decision is not made by the planning committee, made up of elected councillors, it is made by the planners, unelected professionals, with democratic control coming through the development plans and such like. In short, it’s not a positive sign re planning, but it isn’t a rejection by any means.

  • #801639

    Anonymous

    Great pic notjim. Must check out around there 😉

    I see the West Front facing College Green is being fully illuminated this week for the first time in well over three years, being almost entirely in darkness for the past year and a patchworked shambles for an eternity prior to that. Indeed, I don’t ever recall the scheme being properly maintained.

    It is quite the shock to see the facade glowering over College Green after the fall of darkness. It adds an entirely new dimension to the city’s living room, drawing a direct reference to the Bank of Ireland’s beautifully lit curved screen walls across the road – itself a much underrated scheme by virtue of its flawless subtlety – while also making for a new focal point when approaching from Dame Street.

    Sadly, need it even be mentioned what the glaringly predictable problem is. To use some choice Dublineese, “jaysus Maryyy, not more bloody arrennge“!!!

    *sigh*

    So near, yet so far.

  • #801640

    Anonymous

    @paul Clerkin wrote:

    Council bid to scupper Trinity’s new wing
    By Cormac Murphy

    Thursday January 14 2010

    Trinity College’s plan for a new student building has suffered a setback after city councillors rejected it.

    It comes despite the proposal winning approval from heritage body An Taisce.

    Councillors on south east area committee have recommended that planners throw out the scheme

    The Trinity board had requested the go-ahead for the redevelopment of Luce Hall to provide 4,400sqm of student facilities.

    If granted approval it will comprise a four-storey over- basement building fronting on to Pearse Street with a setback terrace on the third floor containing society rooms, a library and student bar.

    An Taisce welcomed the plan, saying the proposal is an important one “on account of the prominence of the site within Trinity College and the city generally”.

    http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/council-bid-to-scupper-trinitys-new-wing-2013486.html

    Poorly reported piece by the Herald.

    This proposal did not win “approval from heritage body An Taisce”, nor did An Taisce welcome “the plan” as a whole.

    An Taisce welcomed the revision which would see the retention and repair the five protected structures 183-187 Pearse Street, relative to the previous proposal on the site which sought to demolish the five protected structures (Ref. 1781/05), subject to assessment of the proposal with regard to development plan provision (AT’s submission is available on the CC’s site – Ref. 4269/0).

    The City Council have requested additional information on the proposal, which almost exclusively precedes a decision to grant permission.

    An Taisce maintains an appeal right in regard to the proposed development.

  • #801641

    Anonymous

    Scaffolding is coming down on the Long-Room-Hub building

    I don’t think these photographs are really doing this justice.To make a ‘block’ look this refined, using the same crappy 40mm stone veneer that everyone else uses, is some achievement. I thought the off-set windows and the ‘look you can’t see the floors’ trick was going to appear as contrived here as it does on the Dept. of Finance building, but it just seems to be so well done that you just want to smile.

    I’m not sure about all the boxes on the roof, or how that big corner entrance is going to pan out, but so far, so good, imo.

  • #801642

    Anonymous

    What’s the general verdict?

    How does this work on the inside? Is there a deeper meaning in this or is it just composition for composition’s sake?

    If you ran a Tesco scanner over the barcode fenestration, would the building say something?

    Anyone got any answers?

  • #801643

    Anonymous

    The stone’s a beautiful colour – matches the Berkeley quite well.

    These fenestration patterns are beginning to get me down but the detailing is so crisp.

    Looks good so far.

  • #801644

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    I think it looks well – like you say the detailing is crisp – but there’s some subtlety there that you won’t get in the cheap knock-offs.

    And its doing its bit to mask the extra storey on the arts block, which I don’t like from this side.

  • #801645

    Anonymous

    oh my god. this bears a pale but striking resemblance to department of finance, but with a level of refinement missing.

    If I were graftons id be calling up the copyright enforcer round about now.

    at least the formal shifts in the facade of dept. of finance had an underlying reason. this just feels pointless and willful.

    it does have a nice proportion when viewed from the berkeley, but thats like saying alto vetro is a good piece of architecture by virtue of its (given) proportion.

  • #801646

    Anonymous

    @what? wrote:

    . . . . a pale but striking resemblance to department of finance, but with a level of refinement missing.

    I don’t know, I see this the other way round. If anything this redeems the Dept. of Finance building, by giving it a role as the clumsy progenitor of the type.

    At least the Long-Room-Hub seems to know what it wants to be: some kind of stone faced precious object with all the architectural expression subservient to, and dependant on, the simple, well defined, form . . . almost in the classical temple tradition. The Dept. of Finance block, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to know whether it wants to be a public building, or a streetscape building, . . . . a defined block important enough to be set apart, or a piece of infill. That uncertainty of form, together with the aggressive domination of the Huguenot cemetery, the questionable spatial priorities, the dodgy proportions of the street facade and the cluttered railing/gates at the otherwise minimalist entrance, all mark the Dept. of Finance building down, in my opinion.

    @what? wrote:

    If I were graftons id be calling up the copyright enforcer round about now.

    and then what, call Peter Zumthor up as an expert witness?

    @what? wrote:

    . . . . the formal shifts in the facade . . . . .

    ”formal shifts” 🙂 You just lap this stuff up, don’t you?

  • #801647

    Anonymous

    It’s looking good. The building is a lot better than I imagined it would be. It’s a lot smaller than I expected and fits in very well in Fellow’s Square. It’s a fine addition and a brilliant new amenity which will give the arts more space in Trinity. With the Naughton Institute and Biosciences development favouring the Sciences, it’s only fair that the Humanities get a new building too.

  • #801648

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    ”formal shifts” 🙂 You just lap this stuff up, don’t you?

    gunter, I rather lap the original up than a second-rate vesion by a has-been practice

  • #801649

    Anonymous

    The scaffolding has also come off the Biosciences building on Pearse St, it needs a better decent photographer to take pictures but in the meantime:

    and, showing the set back

    PS – if a better photographer is around, the new wheelchair ramps in New Square are worth a look too.

  • #801650

    Anonymous

    Re: The Long Room Hub

    @paul Clerkin wrote:

    I think it looks well . . . . the detailing is crisp – but there’s some subtlety there that you won’t get in the cheap knock-offs.

    and as if to prove the point, along comes a cheap knock-off.

    @what? wrote:

    gunter, I rather lap the original up than a second-rate vesion by a has-been practice

    I meant the architecture-speak, rather than the subject matter, what?

    . . . . but on the subject matter, you could argue that the architectural language is derivitive and the expression lacks honesty [four storey buildings do have floors], but at least this is a building that doesn’t hedge it’s bets, at least it’s a building that stands there confidently, not afraid to stand comparison with the Berkeley Library, Burgh’s library and all that Trinity baggage.

  • #801651

    Anonymous

    The Pearse St buildings aren’t as bad, or at least, as bad for Pearse St, as I feared, and I, of course, given my particular loyalties, am excited by the sheer amount of space involved, not least because it will free up space in the building where I am. That is not the same as saying they are good though.

  • #801652

    Anonymous

    I’m sick of this pattern if this is the best i’m sick of this so called “full irish architecture”
    I feel as if some drawings have been borrowed or appropriated.
    This is the same stone detailing as the interconnector entrances?

    Please no more box’s and flat dull surfaces…

    Design city 2011 world design 2014 don’t hold your breath…

    ornate and crime it’s the only way…
    The ubiquitous Ireland continues…

  • #801653

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    The Pearse St buildings aren’t as bad, or at least, as bad for Pearse St, as I feared, and I, of course, given my particular loyalties, am excited by the sheer amount of space involved, not least because it will free up space in the building where I am. That is not the same as saying they are good though.

    You’ve got that right notjim. What Trinity needs is more space. The place is teeming with staff, students and tourists and it can be a bit claustrophobic in the Arts Block at times. The Long Room Hub and Biosciences Development will alleviate that. Perhaps this is where they’re planning to put the extra 3,000 students by 2015.

  • #801654

    Anonymous

    A couple more [fairly recent] shots of the ‘Long Room Hub’ building:

    ‘crisp’ detailing for sure, as reddy said, I imagine the awards committee of the AAI are already wetting themselves with this one.

    In due course, I expect the citations are going to invite us to enjoy – lets get the wording right here – the planar qualities of the sheer granite facades, punctuated by deep rhythmical voids of vertical glazing, or some such.

    Having said that, it’s not immediately clear how the rain is supposed to conduct itself off the planar facades without the granite being streaked with weathering stains from all the little ledges and recesses :rolleyes:

    I do still like it though 🙂

  • #801655

    Anonymous

    Personally, I find that the long room hub on its own is quite a good building. However, I do think it detracts from the “little Library”. Looming up behind its well proportioned companion it is just too fussy and contributes to a perspective were the buildings due to their similar stonework almost blend into an undistuinguishable mass.

    In my opinion if it had been cited on another narrow restricted site on the campus it might have worked better. I would have suggested the car park between the cricket pitch and the Nassau St/South Leinster St railings. At least in this position it wouldn’t be overshading anything, could be seen it its own glory and might mercyfully have blocked views of the horrid Setanta Centre!

    On the buildings style, I do conceed that there are now several similar buildings in Dublin. I think its lamentable that some architectural practices in Dublin are fairly lazy as regards where they refine look and draw inspiration. In contrast, if you look up various threads on skyscrapercities, you will find some amazing buildings in places like Lithuania, Estonia and Czech Republic that seem to far eclipse Ireland in terms of design and integrity!

    C

  • #801656

    Anonymous

    It makes the 1937 Reading Room disappear and I think that’s completely intentional; the 1937 Reading Room is widely regarded as being in completely the wrong place and the Long Room Hub is trying to hide that. There were no other sites within the Arts/Humanities section of the College, it is now policy to cluster cognate disciplines; the gap between College Park and Nassau St would have been close enough but that would be a big step, changing the setting of the Park cutting off the view of College Park from Nassau St and altering Nassau St’s character as a classic one-sided street. A big step, one that will presumably be taken eventually, but probably in the context of a much larger development.

  • #801657

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    It makes the 1937 Reading Room disappear and I think that’s completely intentional; the 1937 Reading Room is widely regarded as being in completely the wrong place and the Long Room Hub is trying to hide that. There were no other sites within the Arts/Humanities section of the College, it is now policy to cluster cognate disciplines; the gap between College Park and Nassau St would have been close enough but that would be a big step, changing the setting of the Park cutting off the view of College Park from Nassau St and altering Nassau St’s character as a classic one-sided street. A big step, one that will presumably be taken eventually, but probably in the context of a much larger development.

    Some cojent points there nj. You seem to be clued in as regards the thinking in Trinity. As regards the College Park/Nassau St site, well given that the exterior wall is approx 4-5 feet tall and there are always busses parked along the perimeter, the view of the park from Nassau St aren’t spectacular. Also, one of the aspects that makes the little square outside the Arts Block so delightful is its enclosed private feeling. College park is big enough so that issues of overshadowing won’t arise.

    In relation to the Reading Room, it occured to me after I had posted, that if Trinity absolutely had to shovel a building behind it….a better choice might have been a glass cube a-la the old EBS HQ on Westmorland St, or some of the newer Miesian style blocks found arond the South Docks. I think if this had been the style used its benefits would have been two fold. The glazed exterior would have provided more then enough interior light for environmental reasons. But also, its simplistic facade instead of adding to the surplus of detail, would have framed the reading room and highlighted its particular exquisitness, which small buildings sometimes exude.

    C

  • #801658

    Anonymous

    Despite criticisms of style and similarities with other buildings elsewhere in Dublin, which to an extent I agree with, the new Long Room Hub feels right in the context. I think the proverbial glass box as thebigC suggested, would have been utterly incongruous here, given that it is not relating just to the reading room. The presence of the arts block, the old library and the berkely library preclude the simplistic reading of “old vs. new”. In this sense, it is of its place and its age, and in a few years when the shine and lime-light is off it, it will sit comfortably here, but still hold enough detail that it will be able to stand on its own merit and the comparison in post 243 above explains why.

  • #801659

    Anonymous

    Now that the scaffolding and hoardings are down from around the Long Room Hub and they are working on details, the building keeps getting better and better. It fits very well with the buildings surrounding Fellows’ Square, the black skirting is a huge improvement on the mottled concrete which used to be there and the cladding is a beauty to behold. A fine job which exceeds my expectations.

  • #801660

    Anonymous

    Timlapse video of the Long Room Hub

  • #801661

    Anonymous

    I agree with the other positive comments, this ‘Long-Room-Hub’ building raises the bar big time. It combines simplicity with sophistication, and brings an artistic attention to composition and proportions that we haven’t seen in these parts in a long time.

    The placing of the building in a tricky context [or I suppose more correctly, the design of the building to fit the tricky context] looks completely successful to me now that it’s done, so I’ll have to hurriedly draw a veil over earlier misgivings.

    I should probably stop talking now.

    . . . but this being archiseek, it’d be a shame not to chuck in a few reservations.

    I’d remain a bit concerned that the crispness in the stone cladding may have been delivered at the expense of all the clumsy weathering details that traditionally we’ve always incorporated to prevent external stonework from quickly becomming damaged and stained by frost and rain. Unless I’m missing something, all external weathering relies on a 5mm mastic gun.

    Lets hope that performs better here than it’s been doing around gunter’s bath tub.

    Another reservation I’d have is with the design of the entrance. This area seems to have changed since the model was presented and neither version looks entirely resolved. Two elements that are completely concealed in the rest on the building, the concrete core and the structural steel frame, make a surprising appearance in the periphery of the grand entrance, and both look like an after-thought.

    Over the entrance steps, a pair of white painted steel beams hold up a heavy, and apparently functionless, block of stone cladding while lower down some black painted steel frames lurk beside the lift shaft.

    The smooth finished concrete of the lift shaft [which makes the grand stepped entrance possible in these days of universal access] flanks the main entrance and is oddly not clad in stone – given the prominence of it’s location.

    If the concrete finish is a reference to the great Berkley Library opposite, I’m not sure if the reference really works. The board-marked concrete of the Berkley is clearly intrinsic to that building, both in terms of structure and expression. At the Berkley there’s a clever parity of esteme between the poured concrete elements and the refined granite cladding that weds the consciously modern building to it’s venerable old campus setting.

    You’re tempted to ask, if the poured concrete at the Long-Room-Hub was an acceptable finish for the entrance way, why was it not an acceptable finish elsewhere?

    Anyway, these are just minor reservations, overall I think this is a wonderful addition to Trinity and the city.

  • #801662

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Anyway, these are just minor reservations, overall I think this is a wonderful addition to Trinity and the city.

    I agree and the way in which the entrance evolved surprised me too. I thought that the gaps above those white-painted girders would be filled with glass panelling.

    Now that the building is almost complete, I feel that it could have been larger since there is still a lot of space behind it. However, that may not have been structurally possible given that the actual building is over a rather large lecture hall.

    On a related matter, the height of the Biosciences Development has surprised me. I was walking down that part of Town last week and it is substantially complete. They are building the green roofing unit now and it towers over Pearse St. I’d like to see a measurement of its height. I’d say it’s at least as tall as Apollo House.

  • #801663

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Agreed Gunter, the staircase and entrance looks unresolved – detracts a lot from the design for me.

  • #801664

    Anonymous

    I haven’t seen it but know people who have and they say the LRH is unexpectedly awesome inside; great detailing, lovely materials.

  • #801665

    admin
    Keymaster

    I don’t mind the staircase so much as the exposed steel beam. Overall though, the building certainly fits, I think they got the scale and footprint just right.

  • #801666

    Anonymous

    The stone looks more porous than the original Grafton.
    The stone parapets with no lead might look interesting in a few decades?

  • #801667

    Anonymous

    I still dislike its impact on viewing from the main Sq, but, overall its not a bad little building. I agree about the staircase, shades of the builders running out of materials:)! I would have thought that a continuous stone balustrade/rail and steps more in keeping.

  • #801668

    Anonymous

    Trinity’s Biosciences Development on Pearse St. is nearing completion and it really does dominate the area. I had a look at the website and I counted 11 floors to this building which, assuming a floor height of 4.5 metres, would give the building a height of 49.5 metres. This would be of nearly the same height as Alto Vetro and the Millennium Tower. Given that the building has a much greater floor-plate than either of those two towers, this will be an imposing edifice indeed.

  • #801669

    Anonymous

    Dental School extension: exterior photo

    http://twitpic.com/296ksc

  • #801670

    Anonymous

    I just saw the interior of the Long Room Hub, fantastically, even intrusively, good.

  • #801671

    Anonymous
  • #801672

    Anonymous

    The Lir: The TCD and Cathal Ryan Trust National Academy for the Performing Arts has a website now.

    http://www.thelir.ie/

    Of interest is the plan to build the academy on the corner of the enterprise center nearest Grand Canal Dock and Pearse St. The website has a picture

    http://www.thelir.ie/the-building.html

    but it isn’t clear if this is just a place holder or a genuine design.

  • #801673

    Anonymous

    God that’s ugly. A brutalist municipal swimming pool.

  • #801674

    Anonymous

    As a use, it would be a good addition to the area.
    I had heard of previous plans to redevelop this site way back when… TCD seem to be on a roll with new developments.

  • #801675

    Anonymous

    @paddyb: there is a good chance that that picture is just for putting on brochures etc, it is interesting that the college is intending to build something with a culture use on that corner and, to me at least, impressive that they have raised substantial philanthropy and established the link with RADA, I could be wrong, but I wouldn’t worry too much about the actual picture.

    @StephenC The LRH was paid for by PRTLI4 and they were very lucky with the fall in building costs, it is among the best finished academic buildings I’ve been in, the Pearse Street development is being paid for by PRLTI5 and was an amazing win for the college, it won big in that round. The stables came from philanthropy and is fabulous. Long may this roll continue.

  • #801676

    Anonymous

    http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2010/09/19/story51745.asp

    SBP on the Lir: “Designed by Smith Kennedy Architects” so perhaps that is the actual design, I completely missed the planning permission; it is 2335/10

  • #801677

    Anonymous

    Smith Kennedy designed the Maynooth version of this project, before whatever happened happened to cause it to move to TCD.

  • #801678

    Anonymous

    What is it with Trinity College and Pearse Street, do they just not give a shit?

  • #801679

    Anonymous

    How do you mean gunter: do you mean the Lir? I assume that the philanthropic trust behind the academy wanted to stay with the same architects they had already been working with; the academy will add a cultural asset to the street.

    Perhaps you are referring to the biosciences building; I agree it is over-scaled. Of course, the college footprint is under huge pressure and there is so little money; to avoid overdevelopment of the site the city council needs to make touching gifts of land, as city councils elsewhere with city centre universities do.

  • #801680

    Anonymous

    Yes the Leer, the Bio-Steroid block, the Goldsmith barracks, Luce-off-square-with-diagonals, business park Naughton, the blanked-off streetscape . . . . Trinity has been a patron of architectural excellence in Dublin for three hundred years . . . . but when it comes to Pearse Street . . . .

  • #801681

    Anonymous

    I knew about the other stuff, I was just wondering what the new irritant was! I think the situation with the Lir is very complicated.

    Luas Hall is a funny one, not really the college’s fault, it follows the line of the proposed widened street; there is a plan to build out to the street line.

  • #801682

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    Luas Hall is a funny one, not really the college’s fault, it follows the line of the proposed widened street; there is a plan to build out to the street line.

    You’ve got trains on the brain, notjim. It’s Luce Hall not Luas Hall and named after one of our former Vice-Provosts.

    However it would be interesting if it served as a depot on a Pearse St. extension to the Luas BXD line. Then it really could be called Luas Hall.

  • #801683

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    I just saw the interior of the Long Room Hub, fantastically, even intrusively, good.

    notjim probably thought he was getting away with that provocative one-liner . . .

    . . . but thanks to culture night, the great unwashed have also been in fingering the wallnut and nosing around.

    the main void . . . . love the green seats

    the theatre, which the Sunday Times critic recently anointed – ”a democratic space” – because . . . . you might want to sit down for this one . . . . . ”the floor and ceiling are flat and the chairs are moveable” . . . . .
    ”more of a big room” really :rolleyes:

    moving on . . .

    the communal spaces do have a bit character about them, although you do start to see walnut climbing up the walls and crossing the ceilings, after a while.

    The offices however are mostly disappointing in my opinion, and surprisingly mean. Many of these little rooms seem to share that condition that I think we noted in the internal layout of many of the Timberyard apartments [by fellow Group 91ers, O’D+T] – the internal spaces look compromised by the same fenestration doctrine that delivers the carefully arranged composition externally.

    Again to draw on the insight of the Sunday Times, – the architects have made this an ”effortlessly low-energy building . . . . . by placing each room next to a window” . . . . . where did they get this guy?
    However, in many cases, the full height window that the room is ‘placed next to’ is frequently off in a corner, or orientated across to another guy’s office rather than opening out onto the considerable charms of the Trinity campus outside.

    Even though I love this building, I’m having a hard time forgiving the architectural preciousness that imposes a regime like this on little rooms that just want little windows, at a handy level to stare out through, and I’d suspect that the resentment might grow if I was actually obliged to occupy one of these little rooms.

  • #801684

    Anonymous

    . . . . and another thing, we don’t need arty photographs to persuade us that this is a fine building

    We ought to be able to appreciate a decent building like this in normal day-light . . . . and not at contrived angles either . . .

    To continue the point made earlier – that the integrity of some of the internal spaces appears to me to have been compromised by the uber-cool external composition, even though the external composition trades on a seemingly infinite flexibility in ope width, within the discipline of a pre-determined height.

    In fact, the external design goes out of it’s way to conceal what’s going on inside. Neither the stairwells at either end, nor the main theatre space, are expressed, or even hinted at, in the elevation treatment.

    This slightly brings to mind another exquisite Dublin stone box, the Casino at Marino, which Open House reminds us has sixteen rooms inside, and not actually the one it appears to have.

  • #801685

    Anonymous

    Go see the Casino on Open House Weekend…..fabulous!

  • #801686

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    The dark wood and the green is all a bit “nude” circa 1998 innit?

  • #801687

    Anonymous

    Cobble reduction in front square to start next week, schedule to take a long time.

  • #801688

    Anonymous
  • #801689

    Anonymous

    Last post should link to a sketch i did last August
    with some sketching friends.

    Very interesting thread about a very interesting
    enviroment rich in architecture

  • #801690

    Anonymous

    Those universal-accessibility granite paths are going in across the front square at the moment without too much drama.

    One interesting revelation is the survival [just below the surface] of the foundations of earlier blocks including the brick-over-stone walls of this secondary cross block that joined up with the old chapel.

    Has anyone identified the exact location of the original tower/spire, the predecessor to the 18th century domed structure that re-fronted the replacement 17th century chapel? Dineley shows it off to the north-east.

    If the location isn’t built over, it’s excavation would make an interesting addition to the layers of history on site.

  • #801691

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Those universal-accessibility granite paths are going in across the front square at the moment without too much drama.

    Could you call the people that did this architects/designers/urban planners?
    Universal debt free housing does not exist says mike brady

  • #801692

    Anonymous

    I think the introduction of granite paving across the front square has been a success. It has improved invalid accessibility dramatically and it hasn’t diminished the visual quality of the old random cobbled surface . . .

    . . . but now somebody with obvious obsessive/compulsive tendencies has decided that the little roundy stones all need to face the same way and be marshalled into neat little rows.

    Now I might be only an amateur clinical psychiatrist, but even I can tell that this is a cry for help.

    There’s about four acres of cobbles down there and somebody is going to go into meltdown before he reaches the Dining Hall steps, if he doesn’t get the professional help he needs.

    I don’t want to be reading about another college-campus-mini-digger-rampage before finals week comes around.

  • #801693

    Anonymous

    Yes the pattern in which these river stone cobbles are being laid, as well as the material in which they are being drowned, is of concern – what’s going on? It’s bizarre that practices like this still crop up on what is probably the flagship expanse of historic surfacing in the State.

    Where are those 1980s Hands chaps when you need them?

    I broadly agree that the mobility access paths have been well handled in Parliament Square, though remembering that this was the loopy scheme initially put forward.

    And also remembering that the above was the ‘compromise’ arrived at after months of consultation in-house in Trinity. Lord only knows what was on the table during those discussions. Thankfully, Dublin City Council omitted the above diagonal paths in the approved version.

    Personally, I view the central axial path to the Campanile as being both unnecessary and obtrusive. A miniscule fraction of wheelchair users will ever have the need to move directly from the main entrance at College Green to the Rubrics. Destinations for the vast majority of users are to the sides, where paths are also provided. Using the central path affords no time gain relative to the side paths in approaching these places. The same is true of the horizontal path linking the Chapel with the Examination Hall. Both of these are grossly intrusive relative to their function, visually breaking up the vast expanse of cobbles, and by association diminishing the scale and grandeur of this entire historic enclosure.

    You really have to stand in the square to truly appreciate their impact. Yes, to the casual observer it all probably works fine as vaguely satisfying axial alignments, but that’s not really the point. The corrosive impact on the appearance of the principal public domain surfacing of the college from a random, organic evolution to planned spatial definition is a radical departure from its history.

    Those two paths aside, the type of granite that has been chosen for the paving is spot on. It is the perfect colour and granular texture.

    The pattern of its laying is also well chosen – a simple brickwork pattern using small to medium sized square and rectangular slabs.

    Simple and unpretentious – very nice indeed.

    Thankfully, the fussy sett edging seen above has not been used everywhere. Nice crisp joints with flanking cobbles predominate.

    This will weather nicely. The jointing of the slabs is also top notch.

    Some fine details too.

    There is something immensely satisfying about seeing a precision construct working its way through an untamed wilderness…

  • #801694

    Anonymous

    Overall though, I feel this has been an immensely successful engineering project that unfortunately exhibits little design input or imagination. One would have expected, at the very least, with all of the mighty weight of historic precedent of craft, masonry tradition and design continuity on its shoulders, not to mention the eyes of the little conservation bubble in Ireland on its workings, that something a little more stimulating than precision cuts of a handsaw and an accompanying CAD drawing would be evident on the ground.

    The junctions of the paths are thoroughly boring and border on slapdash in places. They in no way accord with the creative flair of the street surface tradition of Dublin of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

    The angular path outside the Old Library is a case in point. Two different joint details are used in two different places to manage the same angle. This is a wide shot.

    Aside from the obvious clutter of using unduly small pieces, this junction ends like this…

    …while this junction a metre a way ends like this.

    Both of which are hamfisted. A sharp point is the obvious solution to both scenarios.

    The contrast with the striking concentrically laid rows of historic setts right next to it addressing the entrance to the Library couldn’t be more stark.

    Likewise, many of the junctions of pathways, including this important one outside the Library, are dressed with a manhole.

    Not only does the pattern of stone not acknowledge the importance of junctions, it’s actually downgraded to host of service cover! Unbelievable.

    Likewise, the most important junction of all, the crossroads slap bang in the middle of the square, goes completely unacknowledged and is virtually insulted by a jarring ‘almost but not quite’ alignment of joints. Crude stuff.

    The same can be seen at the critical entrance to the square proper from the College Green pathway. Now this isn’t yet finished, as the path will eventually run right up to the entrance, but already you can see a crudely unaligned junction will emerge here.

    This may be viewed as nitpicky, but as the trend-setting, flagship adaptation of an historic urban surface treatment in Ireland with centuries of precedent behind it, one would at least expect to see evidence of somebody sitting down and working these details out with a bit of passion and creative flair.

    Anyway, they’ve a challenge on thei hands to get this lot finished before Herself arrives! At least red carpet covers up a multitude of sins.

  • #801695

    Anonymous

    Here’s a panorama I took during the works if anybody is interested (:

    Click for larger

  • #801696

    Anonymous

    I think it has on the whole been successful with the caveats Graham H has given. I was particularly disappointed that the granite path hasn’t been edged by square setts, the portions that have square sett edging fortuitously, look fabulous.

    I wonder what will happen to the old cobbles and setts, they are currently piled up beside Luce Hall. It would be nice to extend the cobbling and granite paths.

  • #801697

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    I think it has on the whole been successful with the caveats Graham H has given. I was particularly disappointed that the granite path hasn’t been edged by square setts, the portions that have square sett edging fortuitously, look fabulous.

    I wonder what will happen to the old cobbles and setts, they are currently piled up beside Luce Hall. It would be nice to extend the cobbling and granite paths.

    I agree, the area around the Samuel Beckett Theatre would look better with cobbling and granite paths than the current tarmacked surroundings. They could also build in a small amphitheatre to allow for some open-air performances of works the drama students have created.

  • #801698

    Anonymous

    I always think the area where the prefab is now between Physics and Botany would be great for a sunken ampitheatre.

  • #801699

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    I always think the area where the prefab is now between Physics and Botany would be great for a sunken ampitheatre.

    Yeah, that would be a good spot for one but having one near the theatre would make into more of an area for drama. The area with the prefabs is also ripe for putting in a permanent structure. It’s crazy that in amongst all the rest of Trinity’s wonderful estate of buildings we have a big pile of prefabs. They must be a nightmare given that they get too cold in winter and too warm in summer. They aren’t in keeping with the prestige and architectural standards one expects of the University of Dublin.

  • #801700

    Anonymous

    The ‘Long Room Hub’ gets the Raymond Ryan treatment in the current Architecture Ireland

    For its size, this is a building full of aspirations and complexities that are difficult to put into words . . . . . but not for Raymond Ryan;

    ‘This latest addition to Trinity’s extensive library system stretches between the Old Library and the 18th century Examination Hall like a thick curtain or inhabited backdrop. It may also suggest a ship, its flanks eroded by floor-to-ceiling openings, its roof punctuated by cubic boxes that function as light chimneys. It succeeds as both fabric and object.’

    ‘. . . it appears less as a Rationalist pavilion [equanimous on all sides]. more as a sliver of built matter ancillary to Thomas Burgh’s great linear library, to the Berkeley Library across Fellows Square and the Arts and Social Science Building, also by ABK, rising in stepped section to the south.’

    ‘You approach through the zigzag porch of the Arts Building and discover the Long Room Hub slipping into view like a prosthesis to the 1978 ABK structure . . . .’

    ‘It’s playful and elegant, this stereometric sponge with erosions in all directions.’ ‘It feels like a vertical V.I.P. lounge for the mind, complete with collegial sofas and attractive meeting areas . . . . It feels more like a club, a honeycomb in which to write, sift, discuss, interact.’

    So there you have it; It’s a thick curtain, an inhabited backdrop, an eroded ship, a sliver of built matter, a wooden leg, a stereometric sponge, a vertical V.I.P lounge and a honeycomb.

    Charades with this man, will not be over quickly.

    Raymond Ryan, formerly of this parish and now curator of the Heinz Architectural Centre in Pittsburgh, doesn’t mention the term monumentality at all, which I would have thought should have been in the mix somewhere, but then Raymond Ryan has form when it comes to Trinity and monumental blocks, witness a School of Botany thesis, in full post-modern power-house mode, from 1981

  • #801701

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    It’s been a while since I laughed at a review – but that review demonstrates why the general public believe architects talk out of their orrifaces…

    Seriously could he have written than in english rather that architectese?

  • #801702

    Anonymous

    I must say I had misgivings about the plan to replace some of the cobbles on Front Square with pavements but now that virtually all the work has been completed and they have begun to settle into the fabric of Trinity they certainly are not the calamity one would have expected. If anything they have added to the character of Front Square by emphasising sight-lines and the beauty of the cobblestones by providing a contrast. They also have made Front Square a busier place by making it easier and more inviting for cyclists, women and the disabled to use it. Overall, the project has been a success.

    The current project in Trinity is the cleaning of the Museum Building. Scaffolding had stood next to the place for so long that I thought it was going to become a permanent feature (especially when it didn’t look as if any activity was taking place) but once it was removed from the east side of the building you could see the thorough job done. Scaffolding has gone up on the north side now to carry on the work.

  • #801703

    Anonymous

    I never worried about the paving; I thought it would be good; I am disappointed by the execution though; the stretch by the campanile where it is lined by square stones, by chance, shows how great it could’ve looked if they had taken the trouble to relay the cobbles to address the paving. The worst offender is the circular pattering where the walk between the two greens by the front arch meets the main cobbled area, the way it abuts the straight paving is terrible.

    The museum building cleaning job is great; how long though is it going to take to make the Berkeley Podium waterproof.

    In other news, the College is apparently commissioning a “major” public art work to commemorate Walton, partly I suppose to make up for renaming the LT named after him.

  • #801704

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Couple of images, people may not have seen before… The first one of the theatre, I hadn’t seen. What happened the dome proposal?

  • #801705

    Anonymous

    Thanks Paul:) I hadn’t seen that Theatre design before! God, you’re a great man for digging out those old engravings and illustrations!

    C

  • #801706

    Anonymous

    7/6/2012

    Finally, after years of neglect, the iconic quaint lamp standards atop the entrance gates of Trinity’s West Front were receiving some attention a weekend or two ago.

    The pillars themselves are quite historic, installed as part of the Victorian railings and being of sturdy proportions with charming Corinthian capitals. The lamp heads were only erected c. 1980 but are an extremely convincing Edwardian design – I suspect they may have been salvaged from elsewhere. They feature delicate ribbon-like crosses and delightful frilly hat pinnacles that hover above the globes. A clever little access door too.

    It took the guts of 15 minutes and a bit of head scratching to get to this stage. Off she comes.

    Carefully does it now.

    And settle down.

    Sights were then turned to repairing the bulb holders – this disconcertingly large piece of plastic was produced. Okay, perhaps it is going to be concealed by the lamp when it goes back on.

    Well, no actually. Not only is it to be left exposed, this is the new base for an entirely new lamp. Yes, the old lamps were dumped, and new, ignorantly detailed, factory-produced lamps have been stuck on in their stead. Not only has the old fabric been lost, but the new lamps bear only a passing resemblance to their elegant forebears, with none of the refined profiling or detailed decoration. They are cartoon imitations of their predecessors. The crude bulb holder is also ridiculously tall.

    Before and after, with a nasty plastic top-up and preposterous proportions.

    As ever, Trinity pay lip-service to conservation when it comes to detail and respecting historic fabric. Needless to say, the above also has no planning permission.

    It is such a shame to see the city’s ever-dwindling stock of decent period style lighting being so carelessly eroded even by supposedly flagship conservation authorities and institutions. There is absolutely no excuse for this. Somebody in authority in there must know this is happening.

    Only one lamp has been put back to date as there seems to be a problem with the other.

  • #801707

    Anonymous

    ?????????

  • #801708

    Anonymous

    I have to say its very disheartening to witness this seemingly pervasive attitude of carelessness to the city’s built environment. We are seeing it here with these lamps. It can be seen on Palace Street and on the plans for Grafton Street. And it can be seen throughout the city in the attitude of building owners to their properties.

    It stands in stark contrast to the situation in London (having observed it over the past few days) where quality period buildings are not only maintained but are generally highly sought after to bring prestige to a business. Wandering around areas like Covent Garden you cant help but be impressed at how well maintained most buildings are, and how shopfronts are of high quality. UK high streets undoubtedly have their downsides (the pervasion of chains and brands being one) but for the most part they are really well maintained and historic features are generally treasured and cared for. Unlike poor old Trinity’s lamps.

    Its also worth noting the condition of the central piers of the railing facing Dawson Street…in very poor state of repair.

  • #801709

    Anonymous

    …perhaps a temporary measure whilst the other two are being refurbished?

  • #801710

    Anonymous

    lets hope so.

  • #801711

    Anonymous

    Meanwhile, from one half-arsed lighting scheme to another…just outside Trinity’s gates. Its now 8 months since this scheme was halted (abandoned?). Its anyone’s guess where the lifted paving slabs are.

  • #801712

    Anonymous

    Ooooh admiring a completed facade of the Museum building today which is currently being cleaned and restored. Looks fantastic…its gonna be good.

  • #801713

    Anonymous

    The recently uncovered north facade of the Museum Building in TCD:

  • #801714

    Anonymous

    A beautiful details…which I never noticed before

    So few ornate lamps remaining in the city; this one is particularly striking.

  • #801715

    Anonymous

    Beautiful detailing in the stonework too of course

  • #801716

    Anonymous

    The south and west facades are still under wraps.

    The main square and Campanile looked stunning in the summer sun

  • #801717

    Anonymous

    Perhaps when they have finished they could pop around the corner…

  • #801718

    Anonymous
  • #801719

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    An old cigarette card showing Trinity before the GMB and the work to the Rubrics

  • #801720

    Anonymous

    @StephenC wrote:

    The recently uncovered north facade of the Museum Building in TCD:

    The building is now fully uncovered and looks fantastic…well worth a visit. And well worth a GrahamH dissertation! We don’t get this much these days.

    Separately, in TCD…I notice that the lamps at the College Green entrance have still not been replaced. A hugely complicated undertaking to restore them?

  • #801721

    Anonymous

    A conservation project of enormous significance to Irish architecture, this €500,000 Museum Building initiative has been slowly revealing a building of simply staggering quality.

    I’m sure the architects of Ireland are more than capable of showcasing one of their profession’s most outstanding achievements.

  • #801722

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Here’s a little piece I came across on the carvings in the museum

    1856 – Design for Capitals, Museum, Trinity College, Dublin

  • #801723

    Anonymous

    Its so lovely this building…its an island of care and quality in a sea of city centre dross.

    The next project for TCD to tackle is surely their Pearse Street buildings which are in dreadful condition.

    And still no sign of the repaired lamps at the iconic College Green entrance?

  • #801408

    Anonymous

    The next project for TCD to tackle is surely their Pearse Street buildings which are in dreadful condition.

    No.
    The next project for TCD is to move all the engineering and physical sciences departments to a new technology campus and release the old buildings they presently occupy for occupantion by tenants more sympathetic to their upkeep.

    As things stand there is every argument in favour of this move like

    * TCD’s engineering school is longtime the worst in Ireland, largely due to inadequate labs;
    * You can’t adapt old buildings to modern flexible arrangement needed by engineering/science labs;
    * There is no more space in the College Green site;
    * The antique buildings and too many non-scientist types surrounding the engineering/science faculty
    has a demoralising effect on all wanting freedom to make technological progress;
    * TCD already has a nice chunk of ground around the old canal docks which could be developed;

    and only one plausible argument against it, i.e. that there would be less social mixing :p 😎 between the humanities/social sciences/life sciences students and those relocated to the new tech campus.
    But I think that a dedicated rail line (within the existing track) between the two campuses could solve a lot of this.
    It would also enable lecturing staff to travel from one campus to the other in good time.

    Yes, this’ll take a share of dough.
    But I notice a few multi-millionaires on the TCD development board :
    http://www.tcd.ie/development/about/ourboard.php

    I think that money and its raising is not the real issue here.
    It seems to me that the real issue is the attitude of those who appoint the board and approve its objectives . . . .
    The crusty old farts club.

  • #801724

    Anonymous

    Would anybody be kind enough to post the birdeye perspective by Samuel Byron. In addition to the full Library Square I think it contained a few speculated buildings which were never built.

    Thanks

  • #801725

    Anonymous

    Hey Gang

    I have just been leafing through a copy of “Dublin – A Grand Tour” (Jacqueline O’Brien/Desmond Guinness) which I found in my parents house. There were a few pieces of Information which I hadn’t heard before.

    Firstly, the present Dining Hall is actually the second design executed by Hugh Darley. The original plan, designed by Richard Cassels was abandoned after no less then two collapses during construction. Likewise, Cassels designed a monumental spire and Classical frontage for the Chapel which proved unstable and had to be demolished, probably replaced by the current Chapel (by Chambers/Myers). The spire is famous as it appears in numerous Eighteenth Century illustrations, most notably in in the painting of the Irish Volunteers rally on College Green, when it seems to loom over proceedings. Cassels run of bad luck continued when he designed a new West Front only for the commission to go to the amateur architect Theodore Jacobsen….unsurprising given Cassels less the stellar history where Trinity is concerned! Intriguingly, Jacobsen intended to have the College Green Facade surmounted by a large central Dome over the entrance flanked by cupolas at each end. Apparently, the Northern Cupola was actually constructed, but later dismantled. The planned Dome is the reason for some quirky internal divisions in the central block.

    Lastly, as we all know most of the oldest parts of Trinity pre-1700 do not survive. Including the original monastic buildings. However, looking at Charles Brookings “A Map of the City and Suburbs of Dublin” there is an illustration of “The front of the College” which shows a Classical Building I have never seen before. Certainly, more substantial then any depictions of the “old Trinity” I have seen previously.

    C

  • #801726

    Anonymous

    The west front, as depicted by Brooking, has never received the attention it deserves, despite the fact that Trinity has an actual ‘History of Art and Architecture Dept.’

    The best publications dealing with the development of Trinity are;

    a slim pamphlet entitled, ‘The Buildings of Trinity College Dublin’ by McParland, reprinted from a Country Life article about 1980, and an up-date of this in another McParland publication called ‘The Public Architecture of Ireland’, or something very similar,

    and an article by Linzi Simpson in ‘Medieval Dublin XIII’ published in 2013.

    . . . but don’t expect to find too much discussion on the old west front.

  • #801727

    Anonymous

    Thanks so much for that information. I will keep an eye out for those McParland publications. I think the 1980 pamphlet was referred to earlier in this thread.

    Indeed, it is something of an indictment, just how little information is available in Ireland on the planning and execution of historic buildings and in particular regarding those buildings which are long since demolished or indeed schemes which remained unbuilt. That is a general statement but particularly in this case concerning an institution which is supposedly devoted to the examination of such matters.

    C

  • #924720

    MG
    Participant

    Just looking through the buildings of Trinity on archiseek, and wondering what date of construction was:

    1699 – West Front, Trinity College Dublin

    My understanding is that they used the buildings of the Abbey for a time so I assume this is the first part of the college built specifically? No?

  • #943386

    admin
    Keymaster

    Interesting piece on an architectural model of the current west front
    http://www.tcd.ie/Library/manuscripts/blog/2015/12/grand-designs/

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