reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

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This topic contains 7,923 replies, has 105 voices, and was last updated by  willsonjosep 1 year, 3 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 7,923 total)
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  • #767254

    Neo Goth
    Participant

    I guess most people on this thread have visited the brilliant website by the Friends of St Colman’s Cathedral at http://www.foscc.com my compliments to the friends for trying to stop this latest outbreak of architectural vandalism.

    Neo-Goths of the world unite and strike back!

    #767255

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    In Cobh Cathedral, for years the great central motif of the moasic in the chancel was covered by a green carpet ivo-stuck to the floor. In the first phase of the Cathedral restoration it was removed. Because it had been glued to the floor, and at a time when there was still some bit of respect for Oppenheimer’s work, it was taken up by steeping it in large quantities of petrol to avoid tearing up the tesserae of the mosaic. At that time, a phoney appreciation of the central chancel mosaic was used to justify removing the altar rails – all quietly forgotten, however, since Cathal O’Neill proposed digging out the entire floor, mosaic and all.

    #767256

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant

    Oppenheimer is also credited with the design of the Clonard Redemptorist Church, Falls Rd., Belfast.

    This church, also known as the Church of the Holy Redeemer, occupies a dramatic site on one wing of a three-sided courtyard. It is linked by a tower to the red brick and sandstone monastery extension. There is a large rose window in the west façade.
    Clonard was designed in early French Gothic style by Ludwig Oppenheimer and built in 1897 by the Naughton brothers of Randalstown. It is home to the Redemptorists, who were founded in Italy in 1732 and contains mosaics from Gabriel Loire of Chartres. The Monastery was the scene of the first contacts that started the Northern Ireland peace process in the early 1990s.
    http://www.gotobelfast.com/index.

    #767257

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    After a little digging, it appears that Ludwig Oppenheimer worked on several major projects in Ireland:The Dublin Museum (1890); Cobh Cathedral (1892); Sts Augustine and John, Thomas Street, Dublin (c.1899); Newry Cathedral (1904-1909); Redemptorist Church, Limerick (1927); Sts. Peter and Paul, Clonmel (??); St. Mary’s, Nenagh (1910); the Honan Chapel, UCC,Cork (c.1915); Clonakilty; Fermoy; Midleton; Kilmallock. Interestingly, George Ashlin was involved in all of the above mentioned projects (except the Honan Chapel and Dublin Museum) and seems consistently to have retained Ludwig Oppenheimer to carry out mosaic work.

    #767258

    Neo Goth
    Participant

    So the proposed changes necessitate the destruction of the mosaic floor of the cathedral but what will be put there in its place? Does the architect favour the bathroom tile model of the cathedral in Killarney?

    #767259

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    A pastiche job is proposed incorporating salvage from the present central mosaic and some matching glories imported from the Domus Dei people who similarly obliged -albeit much less radically- in Newry (1992). Apart from that, no specifics have been outlined by Cathal O’Neill for the replacement.

    #767260

    MacLeinin
    Participant

    I thought that the Parish Church in Nenagh was by Walter Doolin, not Ashlin.

    #767261

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Yes, you are correct. The parish church in Nenagh is by Walter Doolin. Ashlin was the assessor for the competition and chose Doolin’s submission. Walter Doolin had also been George Ashlin’s pupil. Jermey WIlliams in his Companion Guide to Architecture in Ireland 1837-1921 describes Doolin’s as a conservative architecture derived from Ashlin. The interiors of his churches “come as a welcome relief due to his determination to create a multi-coloured paradise out of the chancels, relying not only on frescoes, and stained glass but also on mosaics, and wrought iron grilles, painted and decorated”. G. Ashling completed Nenagh in 1910. You might also note that Walter Doolin is also the architect for the parish church in Charleville which explains Oppenheimer’s mosaic work there.

    #767262

    MacLeinin
    Participant

    Thanks for that.
    Can anyone confirm that the mosaic work in Charleville – that can still be seen – is by Oppenheimer.

    #767263

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant

    :confused: At present the Sedelia has been removed from right hand Sanctuary screen and is now free standing in Sanctuary and a dining chair put in its place.

    Can anyone explain who this can happen since the building was listed as a protected structure and is the subject of a Covenant with the Heritage Council

    #767264

    Peter Parler
    Participant

    Thanks for the photo, Gianlorenzo. I’d have assumed you were joking about the dining chair!

    #767265

    Praxiteles
    Participant

    They cannot surely have been so ignorant as to attach that awful piece of metal to the back of one of the sedilia!!

    Does the genius who perpretrated this bit of hooliganism not realize that this sedilia is based on the classical faldisterium which was taken by the pro-Consuls on their missions outside of Rome as a symbol of their authority and jurisdiction? Does he not know that the pro-Consuls sat on it to give judgement and that its assumption into Christian usage is just one example of what is now described as “inculturation”?

    #767266

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant

    Can anyone tell me how I post a photograph directly onto the tread? I am having terrible trouble with attachments.

    #767267

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant

    Sorry Praxiteles for the incorrect spelling of sedilia on the picture caption!!!

    #767268

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant

    I am still having trouble with attachments. The byte space is too limited. Help

    #767269

    Neo Goth
    Participant

    I suppose hooligans always have a few iron bars to spare … I suppose this is a form of regressive inculturation.

    #767270

    MacLeinin
    Participant

    Neo Goth. Given the etymology of the discription ‘Gothic’ I do believe that it is His Lordship Bishop Magee who should bear that tag rather than your good self

    #767271

    Neo Goth
    Participant

    We’ve been trying to disavow the Vandals for centuries who’ve been giving us a bad name. It’s easy to spot them though, they usually go around with iron bars and sometimes they try to disguise and hide their iron bars in the most unusal of places.

    #767272

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant

    More Pictures.

    A is the current Sanctuary floor which is to be dug up.
    B is the lower chancel floor and altar rails which are to be dug up and stored!!!!
    C is a view of the Chancel Arch from the southwest.

    The vandals are truly among us.

    #767273

    descamps
    Participant

    A recent picture of the chancel in St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #767254

    Neo Goth
    Participant
    • Offline

    I guess most people on this thread have visited the brilliant website by the Friends of St Colman’s Cathedral at http://www.foscc.com my compliments to the friends for trying to stop this latest outbreak of architectural vandalism.

    Neo-Goths of the world unite and strike back!

    #767255

    Praxiteles
    Participant
    • Offline

    In Cobh Cathedral, for years the great central motif of the moasic in the chancel was covered by a green carpet ivo-stuck to the floor. In the first phase of the Cathedral restoration it was removed. Because it had been glued to the floor, and at a time when there was still some bit of respect for Oppenheimer’s work, it was taken up by steeping it in large quantities of petrol to avoid tearing up the tesserae of the mosaic. At that time, a phoney appreciation of the central chancel mosaic was used to justify removing the altar rails – all quietly forgotten, however, since Cathal O’Neill proposed digging out the entire floor, mosaic and all.

    #767256

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant
    • Offline

    Oppenheimer is also credited with the design of the Clonard Redemptorist Church, Falls Rd., Belfast.

    This church, also known as the Church of the Holy Redeemer, occupies a dramatic site on one wing of a three-sided courtyard. It is linked by a tower to the red brick and sandstone monastery extension. There is a large rose window in the west façade.
    Clonard was designed in early French Gothic style by Ludwig Oppenheimer and built in 1897 by the Naughton brothers of Randalstown. It is home to the Redemptorists, who were founded in Italy in 1732 and contains mosaics from Gabriel Loire of Chartres. The Monastery was the scene of the first contacts that started the Northern Ireland peace process in the early 1990s.
    http://www.gotobelfast.com/index.

    #767257

    Praxiteles
    Participant
    • Offline

    After a little digging, it appears that Ludwig Oppenheimer worked on several major projects in Ireland:The Dublin Museum (1890); Cobh Cathedral (1892); Sts Augustine and John, Thomas Street, Dublin (c.1899); Newry Cathedral (1904-1909); Redemptorist Church, Limerick (1927); Sts. Peter and Paul, Clonmel (??); St. Mary’s, Nenagh (1910); the Honan Chapel, UCC,Cork (c.1915); Clonakilty; Fermoy; Midleton; Kilmallock. Interestingly, George Ashlin was involved in all of the above mentioned projects (except the Honan Chapel and Dublin Museum) and seems consistently to have retained Ludwig Oppenheimer to carry out mosaic work.

    #767258

    Neo Goth
    Participant
    • Offline

    So the proposed changes necessitate the destruction of the mosaic floor of the cathedral but what will be put there in its place? Does the architect favour the bathroom tile model of the cathedral in Killarney?

    #767259

    Praxiteles
    Participant
    • Offline

    A pastiche job is proposed incorporating salvage from the present central mosaic and some matching glories imported from the Domus Dei people who similarly obliged -albeit much less radically- in Newry (1992). Apart from that, no specifics have been outlined by Cathal O’Neill for the replacement.

    #767260

    MacLeinin
    Participant
    • Offline

    I thought that the Parish Church in Nenagh was by Walter Doolin, not Ashlin.

    #767261

    Praxiteles
    Participant
    • Offline

    Yes, you are correct. The parish church in Nenagh is by Walter Doolin. Ashlin was the assessor for the competition and chose Doolin’s submission. Walter Doolin had also been George Ashlin’s pupil. Jermey WIlliams in his Companion Guide to Architecture in Ireland 1837-1921 describes Doolin’s as a conservative architecture derived from Ashlin. The interiors of his churches “come as a welcome relief due to his determination to create a multi-coloured paradise out of the chancels, relying not only on frescoes, and stained glass but also on mosaics, and wrought iron grilles, painted and decorated”. G. Ashling completed Nenagh in 1910. You might also note that Walter Doolin is also the architect for the parish church in Charleville which explains Oppenheimer’s mosaic work there.

    #767262

    MacLeinin
    Participant
    • Offline

    Thanks for that.
    Can anyone confirm that the mosaic work in Charleville – that can still be seen – is by Oppenheimer.

    #767263

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant
    • Offline

    :confused: At present the Sedelia has been removed from right hand Sanctuary screen and is now free standing in Sanctuary and a dining chair put in its place.

    Can anyone explain who this can happen since the building was listed as a protected structure and is the subject of a Covenant with the Heritage Council

    #767264

    Peter Parler
    Participant
    • Offline

    Thanks for the photo, Gianlorenzo. I’d have assumed you were joking about the dining chair!

    #767265

    Praxiteles
    Participant
    • Offline

    They cannot surely have been so ignorant as to attach that awful piece of metal to the back of one of the sedilia!!

    Does the genius who perpretrated this bit of hooliganism not realize that this sedilia is based on the classical faldisterium which was taken by the pro-Consuls on their missions outside of Rome as a symbol of their authority and jurisdiction? Does he not know that the pro-Consuls sat on it to give judgement and that its assumption into Christian usage is just one example of what is now described as “inculturation”?

    #767266

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant
    • Offline

    Can anyone tell me how I post a photograph directly onto the tread? I am having terrible trouble with attachments.

    #767267

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant
    • Offline

    Sorry Praxiteles for the incorrect spelling of sedilia on the picture caption!!!

    #767268

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant
    • Offline

    I am still having trouble with attachments. The byte space is too limited. Help

    #767269

    Neo Goth
    Participant
    • Offline

    I suppose hooligans always have a few iron bars to spare … I suppose this is a form of regressive inculturation.

    #767270

    MacLeinin
    Participant
    • Offline

    Neo Goth. Given the etymology of the discription ‘Gothic’ I do believe that it is His Lordship Bishop Magee who should bear that tag rather than your good self

    #767271

    Neo Goth
    Participant
    • Offline

    We’ve been trying to disavow the Vandals for centuries who’ve been giving us a bad name. It’s easy to spot them though, they usually go around with iron bars and sometimes they try to disguise and hide their iron bars in the most unusal of places.

    #767272

    Gianlorenzo
    Participant
    • Offline

    More Pictures.

    A is the current Sanctuary floor which is to be dug up.
    B is the lower chancel floor and altar rails which are to be dug up and stored!!!!
    C is a view of the Chancel Arch from the southwest.

    The vandals are truly among us.

    #767273

    descamps
    Participant
    • Offline

    A recent picture of the chancel in St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh.

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