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  • #801428

    Anonymous

    Great picture GH – thanks! Common sense would have that radiator replaced by something wit a lower profile! To continue my photographs of less well photographed parts of TCD, the CS banana tree:

    #801429

    Anonymous

    #801430

    Anonymous

    Can anyone tell me what’s the story with the Luce Hall? Is it still in use? It’s a godawful looking thing and doesn’t really make good use of the site it’s on, there being a large but unusable gap between it and the Pearse St. boundary, as well as to it’s east towards Westland Row.

    Any plans for something new to replace it?

    Birds-eye view

    Can’t seem to get the above link to centre on the building in question, but top left.

    #801431

    Anonymous

    It used to be the sports hall and at the moment the squash courts are still in use. Some of it has an ancillary use related to research; the plan though is to convert part of it into a student center, some societies in TCD are well provided for, others are not and there is no student run venue for small concerts, discos etc. Part of Luce Hall will be converted for those purposes, when the money has been raised, I guess through philanthropy and a student levy. There is also planning permission to build student accommodation between Luce Hall and the street line. I amn’t sure if that is going ahead, probably, it will be considered as part of the larger Pearse Street development.

    Although I initially disliked it, I have grown fond of Luce Hall over the years, its rigor and honesty is appealing and like many unloved buildings of its era I think half the problem is that it isn’t maintained. It is at least a building that was designed with some aesthetic ambition, unlike say the Simon Perry building beside it. The thing I hate about Luce Hall is the gap between it and Pearse Street, that’s the bit road widening was supposed to take.

    #801432

    Anonymous

    @notjim wrote:

    unlike say the Simon Perry building beside it.

    Well, Prof. Perry was an engineer not an architect.

    I’d much rather see the Luce Hall replaced rather than reburbished & built around. I didn’t realise the squash courts were still in use. Was the new sports centre built without squash courts?

    And speaking of the new sports centre who designed the drainage at the pool level? 3 showers with 2 drains, neither of which drain fast enough. 3 people showering results in ankle deep waste water from whoever is showering next door 😮 Oh and the changing village is often so hot & humid it’s almost impossible to dry off.

    #801433

    Anonymous

    Well Luce Hall is one of the few newish buildings that will survive the Pearse Street development: the Simon Perry building, that charming red brick Civil Engineering building and the two student accommodation buildings that are edgeways on to the rugby pitch, will all go. I used to like these two but these days I feel that there is something mean and well prissy about them and I won’t be sorry to see them come down.

    #801434

    Anonymous

    Ewww Sarsfield. Also who would have thought Trinity students to be such exhibitionists? Fair enough the view looking out of the gym towards the former Academy cinema is pretty pleasant, but having hoards of passers-by looking back at you in your distressed state is not something that appeals to this poster.

    The interior of the Perry building is even more of an engineer’s dream than the exterior, as difficult as that may be to imagine. Not a fan of Luce Hall either have to say, notjim. It’s not sculpturally Brutalist – just plain, cheap and ugly! Agreed the Pearse Street elevation needs to be resolved. Also I like the new accommodation blocks, and the red brick lol.

    One of the better stories of 18th century Trinners students is their rampaging around the city. As Constantia Maxwell recounts (one sometimes wonders if that should be recalls): “Sometimes they placed gunpowder squibs on the lamps in several streets at once, contriving by fuses to have them all burst at the same time. Whole streets would thus be left in darkness, to the dismay of the populace.” Also: “Sometimes they threw large crackers into the china and glass shops, delighting to see the terrified shopkeepers trampling on their wares for fear of an explosion”.

    Wouldn’t happen nowadays of course – such exertion tends to ruffle the hair gel and smear fake tan. Tsk.

    Well at last the Rubrics is finally undergoing conservation works – huge scaffolding went up last weekend (hope to get a pic). The windows to its main west elevation have been the worst in the college for many years, so perhaps it is just these that are being tackled, though some masonry lintels are in poor condition too. In spite of the Rubrics being the oldest building on campus, dating from c. 1700, pretty much its entire famous facade dates from the 1890s, not just the gables as is often stated.

    The entire facade would appear to be of machine-made red brick, with the day-glo orange surrounds probably later again from the 1930s. The windows also primarily date from two replacement waves in the early and late 19th century from what I’ve made out, though there could be the very odd late 18th century straggler in the mix too. Much more from the late 18th century survives to the rear, testament to the damage inflicted on west-facing elevations in Ireland.

    Also that picture of ivy on the West Front as promised – this during Michael Collins’ funeral in 1922.

    #801435

    Anonymous

    Well “fond of” rather than “fan of”, lets be clear.

    I love the pictures of the Salmon statue, it really is so incredibly lively.

    Here is what we were told about the restoration works: “The Rubrics was constructed circa 1720 and is amongst the oldest surviving buildings on the college campus. The restoration will involve work to the chimneys, the roof, the brickwork, the stonework and the windows and will be overseen and supervised by John J OConnell conservation architect.” Do you know when the bookends were added btw?

    #801436

    Anonymous

    Oh excellent – a full scale job. It was badly needed. The Rubrics is about 1700 though – the other ranges (since demolished) were 1720s. For once we got left with the older one.

    Yes the bookends were added in the 1980s I think – indeed possibly even as late as the early 90s. Because the Rubrics was originally only one range of a square of three similar buildings, and directly abutted the Old Library to one end and the (Darley?) classical corner to the north, it depended on the support of these structures. When the corners were opened up – perhaps the 1890s? – the ends of the Rubrics range were left exposed, and were buckeling badly by the late 20th century, so the crude modern brick bookends were built up against the gable walls.

    #801437

    Anonymous

    This is the bird’s eye view of Trinity by Byron (dated1780) from one of those Eddie McParland pamphlets of the 1970s (cost 98p)

    The full Library Square, as described by Graham, with Rubricks range at top right.

    #801438

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Design for proposed additions to Trinity College, Dublin: by Thomas Rickman, (1776-1841) west or front elevation of an entrance building with a bell tower.

    http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJkdWJsaW4iOw==&pg=33

    #801439

    Anonymous

    I wonder where that would have been, hardly on the site of the railings and the lawns in front of existing west front on College Green! That would send notjim over the edge.

    I presume it was intended as a replacement for the west range of Library Square where the campanile is now. They seem to have wrestled with different proposals for that site for ages.

    This is a print (also from the Eddie McParland booklet) of a Chamber’s proposal for a focal point at this location integrated into a scheme to refront the existing brick range.

    #801440

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    The Rickman design is from 1834

    #801441

    Anonymous

    I went to photograph the 1916 memorial today, as another obscure TCD photo, and found it had been discretely replaced since last I looked.

    In memory of 2373 Private Arthur Charles Smith 4th Hussars Killed in Action on 29th April 1916 during The Rebellion in Dublin. Erected by The Officers and Cadets of the Dublin University Officers Training Corps. Original Memorial Replaced by The Queen’s Royal Hussars Association 2007

    #801442

    Anonymous

    That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?

    It’s a pity that our ‘British’ heritage has to keep such a low profile. Take note however, that this does not mean that I’m softening my attitude to the front lawns!

    I wanted to watch Educating Rita when it was on the box a few weeks ago, but even with the sound turned down, there’s only so much Julie Walters you can take. There should have been some good shots of the Pearse Street end of Westland Row taken from the old ramp at Westland Row station in it, but they must be in the second half.

    Can you write away and get stills from movies, does anyone know, or do you have to try and do it youself?

    #801443

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?

    Indeed, and partly behind a tree!

    #801444

    Anonymous

    Rubrics with scaffold, the west side is scaffolded, they started the east side today.

    #801445

    Anonymous

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    Leaving aside issues with the lawns, the Pearse St. block and the clientele, the biggest reservation I’d have with Trinity is that there’s no tangible connection with the pre-Georgian heritage of the place.

    Trinity was an Elizabethan foundation (1592 or whatever) yet nobody, in the succeeding centuries, ever thought that it might be nice to keep a corner of a building somewhere from this foundation period. And what about it’s predecessor, the priory of All Hallows, could they not have retained a side chapel, a couple of monks cells, something, just to connect with that layer of the site’s history. This need to destroy everything old fashioned seems to have started very early.

    The Dineley drawing from 1681 shows the pre-Georgian extent of the buildings.

    The least we’ll be expecting when notjim gets elevated to provost is that he gets in a few archaeologists to expose the medieval foundations of that tower and steeple, which McParland has placed somewhere between the campanile and the Rubricks.

    That would be a start!

    If some piece of lawn has to get dug up . . .

    #801446

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    True, but it does prompt the question- are they blocking off the path between the Berkeley and the Printing House? Short-cutting cyclists with an aversion to cobbles are curious.

    I remembered earlier this old photo I had on my computer. It’s one of my favourite views in the college (not a great quality scan, alas).

    #801447

    Anonymous

    @gunter wrote:

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    GrahamH said he was going to get photographs, I was saving him the trouble; in fact I thought it looked rather good. I do keep my photographs small to compensate for their poor quality!

    It is a huge pity there is nothing pre-Georgian, have you every been to the other Trinity, in Cambridge? In fact, it is weak on Georgian, Cambridge is generally, Trinity steps straight from the Wren library to the Victorian buildings, but there is something so moving about the scale and texture of Great Court.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #801428

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Great picture GH – thanks! Common sense would have that radiator replaced by something wit a lower profile! To continue my photographs of less well photographed parts of TCD, the CS banana tree:

    #801429

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    #801430

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Can anyone tell me what’s the story with the Luce Hall? Is it still in use? It’s a godawful looking thing and doesn’t really make good use of the site it’s on, there being a large but unusable gap between it and the Pearse St. boundary, as well as to it’s east towards Westland Row.

    Any plans for something new to replace it?

    Birds-eye view

    Can’t seem to get the above link to centre on the building in question, but top left.

    #801431

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    It used to be the sports hall and at the moment the squash courts are still in use. Some of it has an ancillary use related to research; the plan though is to convert part of it into a student center, some societies in TCD are well provided for, others are not and there is no student run venue for small concerts, discos etc. Part of Luce Hall will be converted for those purposes, when the money has been raised, I guess through philanthropy and a student levy. There is also planning permission to build student accommodation between Luce Hall and the street line. I amn’t sure if that is going ahead, probably, it will be considered as part of the larger Pearse Street development.

    Although I initially disliked it, I have grown fond of Luce Hall over the years, its rigor and honesty is appealing and like many unloved buildings of its era I think half the problem is that it isn’t maintained. It is at least a building that was designed with some aesthetic ambition, unlike say the Simon Perry building beside it. The thing I hate about Luce Hall is the gap between it and Pearse Street, that’s the bit road widening was supposed to take.

    #801432

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    @notjim wrote:

    unlike say the Simon Perry building beside it.

    Well, Prof. Perry was an engineer not an architect.

    I’d much rather see the Luce Hall replaced rather than reburbished & built around. I didn’t realise the squash courts were still in use. Was the new sports centre built without squash courts?

    And speaking of the new sports centre who designed the drainage at the pool level? 3 showers with 2 drains, neither of which drain fast enough. 3 people showering results in ankle deep waste water from whoever is showering next door 😮 Oh and the changing village is often so hot & humid it’s almost impossible to dry off.

    #801433

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Well Luce Hall is one of the few newish buildings that will survive the Pearse Street development: the Simon Perry building, that charming red brick Civil Engineering building and the two student accommodation buildings that are edgeways on to the rugby pitch, will all go. I used to like these two but these days I feel that there is something mean and well prissy about them and I won’t be sorry to see them come down.

    #801434

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Ewww Sarsfield. Also who would have thought Trinity students to be such exhibitionists? Fair enough the view looking out of the gym towards the former Academy cinema is pretty pleasant, but having hoards of passers-by looking back at you in your distressed state is not something that appeals to this poster.

    The interior of the Perry building is even more of an engineer’s dream than the exterior, as difficult as that may be to imagine. Not a fan of Luce Hall either have to say, notjim. It’s not sculpturally Brutalist – just plain, cheap and ugly! Agreed the Pearse Street elevation needs to be resolved. Also I like the new accommodation blocks, and the red brick lol.

    One of the better stories of 18th century Trinners students is their rampaging around the city. As Constantia Maxwell recounts (one sometimes wonders if that should be recalls): “Sometimes they placed gunpowder squibs on the lamps in several streets at once, contriving by fuses to have them all burst at the same time. Whole streets would thus be left in darkness, to the dismay of the populace.” Also: “Sometimes they threw large crackers into the china and glass shops, delighting to see the terrified shopkeepers trampling on their wares for fear of an explosion”.

    Wouldn’t happen nowadays of course – such exertion tends to ruffle the hair gel and smear fake tan. Tsk.

    Well at last the Rubrics is finally undergoing conservation works – huge scaffolding went up last weekend (hope to get a pic). The windows to its main west elevation have been the worst in the college for many years, so perhaps it is just these that are being tackled, though some masonry lintels are in poor condition too. In spite of the Rubrics being the oldest building on campus, dating from c. 1700, pretty much its entire famous facade dates from the 1890s, not just the gables as is often stated.

    The entire facade would appear to be of machine-made red brick, with the day-glo orange surrounds probably later again from the 1930s. The windows also primarily date from two replacement waves in the early and late 19th century from what I’ve made out, though there could be the very odd late 18th century straggler in the mix too. Much more from the late 18th century survives to the rear, testament to the damage inflicted on west-facing elevations in Ireland.

    Also that picture of ivy on the West Front as promised – this during Michael Collins’ funeral in 1922.

    #801435

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Well “fond of” rather than “fan of”, lets be clear.

    I love the pictures of the Salmon statue, it really is so incredibly lively.

    Here is what we were told about the restoration works: “The Rubrics was constructed circa 1720 and is amongst the oldest surviving buildings on the college campus. The restoration will involve work to the chimneys, the roof, the brickwork, the stonework and the windows and will be overseen and supervised by John J OConnell conservation architect.” Do you know when the bookends were added btw?

    #801436

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Oh excellent – a full scale job. It was badly needed. The Rubrics is about 1700 though – the other ranges (since demolished) were 1720s. For once we got left with the older one.

    Yes the bookends were added in the 1980s I think – indeed possibly even as late as the early 90s. Because the Rubrics was originally only one range of a square of three similar buildings, and directly abutted the Old Library to one end and the (Darley?) classical corner to the north, it depended on the support of these structures. When the corners were opened up – perhaps the 1890s? – the ends of the Rubrics range were left exposed, and were buckeling badly by the late 20th century, so the crude modern brick bookends were built up against the gable walls.

    #801437

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    This is the bird’s eye view of Trinity by Byron (dated1780) from one of those Eddie McParland pamphlets of the 1970s (cost 98p)

    The full Library Square, as described by Graham, with Rubricks range at top right.

    #801438

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster
    • Offline

    Design for proposed additions to Trinity College, Dublin: by Thomas Rickman, (1776-1841) west or front elevation of an entrance building with a bell tower.

    http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJkdWJsaW4iOw==&pg=33

    #801439

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    I wonder where that would have been, hardly on the site of the railings and the lawns in front of existing west front on College Green! That would send notjim over the edge.

    I presume it was intended as a replacement for the west range of Library Square where the campanile is now. They seem to have wrestled with different proposals for that site for ages.

    This is a print (also from the Eddie McParland booklet) of a Chamber’s proposal for a focal point at this location integrated into a scheme to refront the existing brick range.

    #801440

    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster
    • Offline

    The Rickman design is from 1834

    #801441

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    I went to photograph the 1916 memorial today, as another obscure TCD photo, and found it had been discretely replaced since last I looked.

    In memory of 2373 Private Arthur Charles Smith 4th Hussars Killed in Action on 29th April 1916 during The Rebellion in Dublin. Erected by The Officers and Cadets of the Dublin University Officers Training Corps. Original Memorial Replaced by The Queen’s Royal Hussars Association 2007

    #801442

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?

    It’s a pity that our ‘British’ heritage has to keep such a low profile. Take note however, that this does not mean that I’m softening my attitude to the front lawns!

    I wanted to watch Educating Rita when it was on the box a few weeks ago, but even with the sound turned down, there’s only so much Julie Walters you can take. There should have been some good shots of the Pearse Street end of Westland Row taken from the old ramp at Westland Row station in it, but they must be in the second half.

    Can you write away and get stills from movies, does anyone know, or do you have to try and do it youself?

    #801443

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    @gunter wrote:

    That looks like a pretty remote location, the retaining wall at Nassau Street?

    Indeed, and partly behind a tree!

    #801444

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Rubrics with scaffold, the west side is scaffolded, they started the east side today.

    #801445

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    Leaving aside issues with the lawns, the Pearse St. block and the clientele, the biggest reservation I’d have with Trinity is that there’s no tangible connection with the pre-Georgian heritage of the place.

    Trinity was an Elizabethan foundation (1592 or whatever) yet nobody, in the succeeding centuries, ever thought that it might be nice to keep a corner of a building somewhere from this foundation period. And what about it’s predecessor, the priory of All Hallows, could they not have retained a side chapel, a couple of monks cells, something, just to connect with that layer of the site’s history. This need to destroy everything old fashioned seems to have started very early.

    The Dineley drawing from 1681 shows the pre-Georgian extent of the buildings.

    The least we’ll be expecting when notjim gets elevated to provost is that he gets in a few archaeologists to expose the medieval foundations of that tower and steeple, which McParland has placed somewhere between the campanile and the Rubricks.

    That would be a start!

    If some piece of lawn has to get dug up . . .

    #801446

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    @gunter wrote:

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    True, but it does prompt the question- are they blocking off the path between the Berkeley and the Printing House? Short-cutting cyclists with an aversion to cobbles are curious.

    I remembered earlier this old photo I had on my computer. It’s one of my favourite views in the college (not a great quality scan, alas).

    #801447

    Anonymous
    • Offline

    @gunter wrote:

    Some of us will have seen scaffolding before notjim!

    GrahamH said he was going to get photographs, I was saving him the trouble; in fact I thought it looked rather good. I do keep my photographs small to compensate for their poor quality!

    It is a huge pity there is nothing pre-Georgian, have you every been to the other Trinity, in Cambridge? In fact, it is weak on Georgian, Cambridge is generally, Trinity steps straight from the Wren library to the Victorian buildings, but there is something so moving about the scale and texture of Great Court.

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