Does Kerry have a planning system?

Sorry to be so long getting back.

I would really appreciate a poll with the following five options

1. It functions perfectly; it gives people what they want.

2. Like all other systems mistakes are made.

3. It is worse than most

4. Chaos and should be changed or supervised by DOE

5. No opinion

Thanks Paul,

It really is a bit of a Kerry joke, and as they say the craic is getting expensive these days both to heritage and financially.

It is time to scrap the McDonalds big mac index for cost comparison and bring in the Heineken index to see the real cost of hospitality on a comparative basis.

I know what you mean Graham,

I never expected 95% Joke/Chaos, albiet from a small sample I think most professionals are annoyed that they slave away for hours to get all the angles covered in pursuit of quality when in other places all that is required is a nod and a wink.

I am not so sure about the results in Killarney being a direct polar opposite from these however. I am absolutely sure that not everyone who sought councillor assistance in relation to planning received it. I would say it was more a case of a few ‘freinds being looked after’. Whilst everyone must live with devalued visual amaenity and blatent traffic hazards.

There is also a local affinity with local heritage buildings, everyone loves to talk about how important their area is on the basis of particular buildings. This is particularly accentuated when the buildings represent ‘industrial heritage’.

Wow,

Someone finally has expressed a preference that the Kerry planning system works perfectly, only 90% of those expressing an opinion felt it was a joke or in chaos.

With 2,194 members archiseek is without question the only real online resource of any note in the urban design and architecture field. In my opinion it is the best resource in the entire area of built environment and as a frequent visitor to this board I feel that this site is moderated and supervised without favour to anyone or group.

To blame architects for the worst excesses in planning is ludicrous, as Tony Reddy the President of the RIAI has said “(he) is unable to process 88% of complaints to his professional body”

The reason being that all of these projects have had no input by a qualified architect, I am also sure that of the remaining 12% the vast bulk of the complaints would relate to project management issues and other financial issues as opposed to matters concerning urban design or planning.

The definitive ruling is Childs vs Wicklow Co Co supreme court 1992 the responsibilities of a County Manager are to the proper planning and development of the area.

Section 140s and dissmissal of professional reports paid for by the taxpayer are not an acceptable situation.

Originally posted by RIAI President http://www.riai.ie/?id=6408
President Announces Development of Client’s Charter
Need for registration of title ‘architect’ highlighted by fact that up to 80% of complaints to RIAI relate to unqualified practitioners.

Development of country’s suburbs needs to be prioritised over next 10 years

The President of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland (RIAI), Tony Reddy, tonight (Wednesday, 2 June) announced that the Institute has decided to develop a Client’s Charter. Mr Reddy said that this is part of the RIAI’s contribution to ensuring that there is an adequate and appropriate regulatory framework to assure the client, the user and society at large of a minimum level of quality.

In this context, Tony Reddy highlighted the fact that up to 80% of the complaints received by the RIAI on an annual basis relate to unqualified practitioners.

“The construction sector must ensure that the services, products and finished buildings it delivers meet consumers’ requirements and that the life cycle costing of their investment is correctly balanced in economical, social and environmental terms. Government must ensure that there is an adequate and appropriate regulatory framework to assure the client, the user and society at large of a minimum level of quality.

“Issues such as registration, commercial communications, professional indemnity insurance, ethics and the resources needed to provide a good product, deserve particular attention. Providing information to clients and consumers on what to expect of the architect is also very important, as is the need to ensure that architects develop their competencies through continued professional development. With all this in mind, the RIAI has recently begun to formally develop a Client’s Charter to further enhance its consumer protection policies.”

Tony Reddy pointed out, that as with most professional organisations, the RIAI also works as a mediator between clients and member architects when things go wrong.

“However, up to 80% of the complaints received by the RIAI on an annual basis relate to unqualified practitioners. The RIAI is unable to assist in situations such as this and it is clear from the range of these complaints that the consumer’s interest is not adequately protected by existing legislation in Ireland.

“Again, the simplest way to minimise the fall-out from inadequate practitioners is to ensure that the architect is duly registered and regulated by a professional organisation. The clients can then seek information on fees, standard contracts and conditions, scope of the architect’s services, and can look to that organisation for redress, should the architect fail in his/her duties to the client.”

Mr Reddy explained that this form of registration, which is currently lacking in Ireland, poses real risks to consumers, in particular in relation to life and property. However, he said that the RIAI expects the issue to be addressed shortly in the context of the Government’s proposed Building Control Bill.

“Regulation of the architectural profession in most developed states is primarily aimed at securing quality in the built environment and protecting the consumer. Obviously, architects’ services affect not only the client who commissions a project but also the community within which the project is built. This impact on the community is felt not only in the present but also far into the future. It is for this reason that, when regulating the profession, government must ensure that both the client’s interests and the short and long-term interests of society are carefully safeguarded.

“That is a very delicate responsibility and the open market has only a limited effectiveness as a safety mechanism in this domain. The simplest way to ensure that the architect is this kind of service provider is to have a registration system. Registration of title exists in most EU countries, the United States, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, where there are regulatory regimes, which promote competition law. The fundamental principle underpinning the registration of architects in these countries is that government sets standards and qualifications to protect the consumer and ensures, through competition and antitrust laws, the operation of a free market in the provision of services.”

Tony Reddy then went on to address the issue of the development of the country’s suburbs, pointing out that while there have been many successes in the past decade in terms of developing our towns and cities, there is still much recent development in our cities and towns which is of poor quality. In particular, the suburban landscape and the badly landscaped, mean-spirited housing estates are clearly set to be an unfortunate legacy of our era.

“In the suburban areas of all of our cities and towns there are areas where little thought appears to have been given to concepts such as urbanism and place making. This is a very serious problem, which we share with our European partners, and will be given particular emphasis during my term of office as President. I believe it is in the suburbs that all the next major breakthroughs in architecture will occur.

“It is currently estimated that up to 76,000 new homes will be built in Ireland this year, with similar rates expected up to 2010 to meet with anticipated demand. While an amount of this will be built on ‘brownfield’ sites where many architects see the best opportunities, the majority will be built on the edges of our towns and cities, where I feel the real challenges lie. Either way, it represents an important challenge to society and should be seen as an exciting opportunity for Irish architects, urban designers and planners to build successful and sustainable communities, which may in turn become models for town extensions elsewhere,” Tony Reddy concluded.

RIAI 2 Jun 2004

http://www.riai.ie/?id=6408

It is obvious the Mayor of Kerry hasn’t a clue what he is on about: typical of a particular mindset to simply lash out rather than deal with issues.

In fairness to the Journalist the relevant quote is

Originally posted by The Kerryman Mayor O’Sullivan defended the planning system in Kerry and said that the website which contained the findings of the survey did not belong to any established architectural organisation. [/B]

Which appears to be solely attributable to Ned, I really like the article it really allowed Ned to hang himself:

Originally posted by Ned He acknowledged that some councillors had abused their planning powers in recent months, particularly with the use of Section 140 motions which gives councillors the power to force Kerry County Council to reverse a planning decision against the advice of its own planners. [/B]

In other words abuse of the executive function in Kerry is open to abuse under his management.
It was

Frank Corcoran of An Taisce is on the week in politics tonight at 11 20pm on RTE the only One

@Dubliner wrote:

😡

Talking on the issue of no respect did anyone see the news on the 60 seals hacked to death by Kerry Fishermen this week, it appears they have no respect for anything down there, be it creatures, landscapes or historical buildings.

Dubliner,

As thread starter I would ask you to be more restrained in your comments towards Kerry people on this thread, I agree that the incident off Great Blasket is a digrace that hasn’t seen equal since a similar incident occured in the 1980’s a few counties north of here on that I think everyone will agree. But to equate bad planning oversight by the county manager & corrupt interventions by some local politicians with the senseless murder of defenceless animals is way OTT.

The planning system needs to function in Kerry with the professional planners being allowed to perform their duties to the best of their abilities unimpeded by parochial minded clientist politicians. But I wouldn’t lump the two issues together, they are guilty of enough as it is.

@Archiseek News wrote:

Kerry council to offer planning service
Archiseek / Ireland / News / 2005 / January 8
The Irish Times

Kerry County Council is to offer a new “on-site pre-planning service” in an attempt to free up planning for one-off houses on family-owned lands. The development is part of an agreement between the county manager, Mr Martin Riordan, and councillors. There has been bitter division between most councillors and management in Kerry over planning in rural areas. Until recently, council meetings have been dominated by motions from councillors directing the manager to grant permission, often against the advice of planners and engineers.

© Copyright 1996-2005 Archiseek.com

I wonder will it come to anything, or just constitue another layer to be bypassed?

Did anyone see the article in Today’s Irish Times on the 4,500 applications submitted for one off houses in Kerry since this service was introduced. Appaerntly the 4,500 houses are a multiple of the number of ‘rural housing needs’ for the next decade. The article also went on to display the costs of these houses on the Kerry County Council Budget.

It is obvious that the hue and cry raised by particular political elements had little to do with a few hard luck cases but a lot more to do with selling sites with FPP to tourists. Current site values in the prime-r areas of South Kerry with the benefit of FPP now exceed 350k

To be honest this doesn’t surpise or bother me one bit,

we know all the commentators involved and we know their backgrounds and their motivation, I’m sure Dick Roche will just ignore it if he doesn’t this serial garden cleaner will just clean something else.

Probe into alleged ethics breach in Killarney
Monday, 26 March 2007 16:42
The Standards in Public Office Commission has begun a public investigation into alleged ethics breaches by two Killarney town councillors.

The hearing is the first of its kind.

Both councillors, Fianna Fáil’s Pat O’Donoghue and Mayor of Killarney Sheila Casey of Fine Gael, have denied the allegations.

The hearing is being led by former High Court Judge Matthew P Smith, who is the Chairman of the Standards in Public Office Commission.

The two councillors are facing investigation over the rezoning of 20 acres of land belonging to Mr O’Donoghue’s family.

The O’Donoghues own the Gleneagle and Brehon Hotels in Killarney.

Shiela Casey is an employee of Patrick O’Donoghue’s in the Gleneagle Hotel.

20 Acres in Killarney $$$$$$$

Kerry Cllr ‘may have breached ethics’
Thursday, 10 May 2007 15:53
A report on alleged breaches of ethics by two councillors in Killarney, Co Kerry, has been published.

The Standards in Public Office Commission report confirms that it will be referring the case of Fianna Fáil Councillor Patrick O’Donoghue to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

The commission concluded that he may have committed offences under the Local Government Act during his attempts to rezone land owned by his family on the outskirts of Killarney.

AdvertisementThe commission also found that Mayor of Killarney Sheila Casey, Fine Gael Councillor, did not breach the Local Government Act because she may not have had knowledge that, as an employee of the O’Donoghue family, she had a beneficial interest in the motion to rezone the lands.

Tut tut

The frightening thing is that Lowrey topped the poll at the next election and was in the top 10 national vote totals. Will be under pressure this time the constituency looks tight.

There has to be zero tolerance of this type of thing; first whiff and your out. No doubt Cllr O’Donaghue is canvassing away with his tri-coloured badge promoting his namesake.

http://www.fiannafail.ie/person.php4?pid=214&show=Councillor

That says it all

I can’t argue that given the backdrop it is entirely unreasonable to feel apothetic.

Key point in this is that a Councillor has been refered to the director of public prosecutions for alleged use of a party mandate to advance his family interests.

The same councillor is permitted to retain that mandate at election time. If you vote FF you are voting for alleged abuse of the planning system.